At the end of my tether with 3yo and toilet power struggles! Help!!

[flowerfairy]

DD is 3yo and we started pt just under a year ago. We have had times where we have had a dry week or 2 and I've thought we'd cracked it, but mostly we have at least 1 daily accident wee or poo. She is extremely strong willed and will not sit on the toilet/potty if asked event though you can see she is wriggling or about to poo. If you take her without asking she refuses to sit on or full tantrum follows. I don't know what to do anymore, have used rewards ( we have a sticker chart and reward for every 10 she collects) nursery are rewarding her too and tell me she is asking to go. At home if she goes of her own accord if she sees you in the vicinity of the toilet she asks to be left alone, but then we're left with a mess every time to clean up! Tried ignoring all accidents and gentle reminders, threatening to use nappies again, just don't know what to do next. Feeling very demoralised, as DS was a doddle in comparison. Please help!

[flowerfairy]

Bump

[flowerfairy]

Please I really need some ideas what to do

[northyorksbelle]

Hello flower' it is as if someone is watching my house from above when I read your post. I'm also locked in the same power struggle except my DS and I are around 20 months in to the process (he is 4 1/4 or so). The only difference is that we have never had any period I could describe as "dry" so you're ahead of me there.
The current approach is one of nonchalance to any accidents but that's all there is. He still begins in his pants and chooses to tell me at that point or not. I can't get a handle on it at all... at least you're not alone. It has been so long that this taking over my entire consciousness. I think anti before I go to sleep, it keeps me awake and then I think about it when I wake up!
What was going on when you had the dry times? What was the approach you were taking?

[flowerfairy]

Northyorksbelle, glad i'm not alone. I wish someone would come and wave a magic wand and stop these battles, lol. Not really sure how the dry spells happened, I think it was possibly the chocolate button bribe, but didn't want it to last forever so would say that was the last one, so have swapped for stickers, but doesn't seem quite so appealing! After yesterdays meltdown and the repeat performance today, we're watched poo goes to poo land as she isn't emptying her bowels properly and decided (DH and I) that from tomorrow we must bite our tongues when dealing with accidents, say nothing at all, as she seems to thrive on any attention negative or positive. Here's hoping that tomorrow is better for us both, with some success as the washing machine cannot cope with these extra
daily workouts!

[northyorksbelle]

Oh flower, bless you, if it wasn't so tragic it would be funny. I find that the pre-washing poo smeared underpants rinse is the worst (you know how you can't put anything with sick / vomit straight into the machine because it doesn't go anywhere it rather just spreads across everything else?!!) because it is a stink that you can't get out of your nostrils.
We have tried reward charts and blatant bribes to no avail. We have punished and taken things from him. We have denied him outings and treats and even made an enormous fuss (including a dance I did at one point) at the slightest positive sign but nothing really hits home.
What's the answer? I'm buggered if I know to be honest but I have no fight left which is why I'm now trying the ignoring accidents thing. I suppose it's right there are few teenagers routinely messing themselves but it doesn't make it easier on a daily and minute by minute basis. After so long I am not joking when I say that I am seriously considering paying someone to come into my home to just get this done for me!!!!!

[flowerfairy]

When you find someone let me know and then thy can cometo my house too! It's just so infuriating when she is bright in so many other ways, I just can't understand why she cannot get this, aaahhh!!!!
Well she has remembered pogoes to poo land today, but she has yet to prove she can follow through!
Here's hoping,

[flowerfairy]

So a bit better today 2 wees in the toilet hurrah, but 3 poos in pants. But have kept my cool and said nothing when changing her other than simple instructions,- lets clean you up and you need to have a wash, wash your hands. So I've managed to not enter into any fights, hurray me. Now to put my feet up and hope I can keep it up tomorrow.

[flowerfairy]

What about you northyorksbelle?

[northyorksbelle]

Hi flower, well done on the wees I wish I could say the same but I have had to clean up another bath poo tonight... hmmmph. He went to the toilet of his own volition in Costa when we stopped for a coffee this afternoon but other than that it has been SSDD (no pun intended there) because he begins everything in his pants and then decides to toddle off to the bathroom when available and if not he tells me when he has done it - we went out to collect a parcel from the post office today and guess what happened???? The frustrating thing is that I specifically asked him if he wanted to go before we left the house and when he said no I "suggested" that he just go and try anyway and I was met with stern looks! I don't get mad but I wonder how much more I can reasonably be expected to take... woe is me, where is that cork screw? I'm going to be expected to watch the bloody football soon as well!!!!!!!!!!!!

[northyorksbelle]

so we've had ANOTHER poo in the bath tonight and the floaters were on the way towards his little brother when he shouted at me that he "had a little problem". I had checked with him some 30 seconds prior to see whether or not he wanted a poo and of course he said no but then... how do I deal with this?????

[GingerPuddin]

I don't know if it will help but i do potty races with DS. His large teddy has on a pair if pants and when I count to three DS and teddy race to see who can get pants off and sit on the potty the fastest. Then chocolate for trying even if there's no wee or poo.
DS is going through the no phase where the answer to any question is no so I've tried to come up with other ways to get him on the potty

[JaimeT]

My DD is just 4 and we struggled for years with 'accidents' She is dry now but still soils sometimes. Rewarding clean knickers at the end of the day with ITNG and not letting her watch Cbeebies before school the next day if she soils seems to be working. We've had 3 'accident' free weeks so far fingers crossed

[flowerfairy]

Northyorksbelle poor you, I'm fed up of poo! We did have dry day today, hurrah. But DD managed to po on the carpet this morning while I'm trying to do breakfast, tidy up, sandwiches, stick a brush up my a*. But managed to keep calm and say only functional things. She has to be persuaded for the wees at home, but after much moaning she did each time. Still feel we're along way form her asking to go or going voluntarily. Gingerpuddin I like that suggestion will try that on the days she is answering no every time.
Well done JaimeT too, fingers crossed for you too!

[flowerfairy]

Well DD seems to have abit of a dodgy tummy, so we're not doing so well on the poo front at all! But she has weed everytime I've put her on the toilet today, though she hasn't put up much of a fight, due to lack of energy I think!

[northyorksbelle]

Ladies my boy is getting cannier every day. Tonight I told him that if he didn't do his poo in the toilet before getting in the bath I would not be letting him get in the bath. I think that makes sense. Anyway, this was his cue to go totally nuclear because quite frankly how very dare I ask him to do anything right??? He turned purple with rage. His face was actually purple he was so angry at me! He peed on the floor and stood sobbing in the puddle but this didn't break me (I made a fist and dug my stubby non scratching fingernails into my palm) so he sat on the toilet and squeezed out the tiniest of rabbit dropping sized turds ever. What could I do? I had to let him get in the bath because he had done as I'd asked right? Then he finished his poo in the bath. This followed a day full of accidents so I'm clinging onto the rabbit dropping as a slight victory in the war.
With this level of cunning though I think he will soon take over the world and then we're all buggered!

[flowerfairy]

Ooh northyorksbelle you hard woman you .
Hope things improve soon. I think he even wins out my DD for stubbornness and that's saying something!!!
Too poorly today, here.
As muchas she drives me mad when she's at full throttle, I hate seeing her looking so weak and quiet!

[northyorksbelle]

So The Lord giveth and The Lord taketh away. I told DS again tonight that he couldn't get in the bath until he had done a poo and without argument (he just rolled his eyes at me) he sat on the toilet and did the deed. A proper poo! I was just considering myself the queen of brilliance and all things ace when I noticed that the size of the soggy trousers and pants pile was bigger than usual. He must have had 13 changes today. We have never had a "dry" day but I don't think we have ever had that many accidents in a day since he was first out of nappies full time. Could he be mocking me? Of course all the wetting was before bath-time so if he was getting back at me for making him go last night when he only passed the rabbit dropping what will he do tomorrow after he gave me a full size poo tonight????

[northyorksbelle]

flower, it IS rubbish to see them poorly isn't it? I always tell them I wish I could take whatever it is from them when they're unwell 'cause you just don't want to see them suffer with anything, even a tiny cold.

Here's hoping your little miss is back on form real soon!

[flowerfairy]

Well, on the positive side you didn't have a poo soup of a bath, lol!
Very infuriating, I feel for you northyorksbelle (and the washing machine).
Be strong and hugs.

[northyorksbelle]

OMG, OMFG I simply cannot take it. Somebody help me! There has been no improvement and in fact the situation is worse. DS is now having accidents every day at preschool and so is wearing his spares every time I go to collect him. How can it be getting worse? How do I stop being rubbish at this? It's unbelievable!!!! It has become a "thing" between us now of course and I am losing the fight big time!

[northyorksbelle]

Aaaaaaaaaargh!

[northyorksbelle]

He is going to teach his brother to torment me when the time comes too isn't he? I will not be able to handle it, I already can't take it.

I think it's been asked before but in all seriousness are there toilet trainers in the same way that there are sleep trainers?

[babybouncer]

It took a year and a half to potty train DS and there were two turning points. The first was when we announced that there had been too many accidents and returned to nappies - tried pants again a week or two later and there was a drastic improvement. The second was when we stopped doing rewards and punishments or telling him to go. We only enforced travel wees (which applied to the whole family just before we went out, not just him) and before bathtime and the rest of the time we didn't even ask him, although we did tell him we'd noticed if he went of his own accord or even if he finished on the toilet. I think this improved things because I was less stressed and miserable - I just let go.

Also, we bough multipacks of white pants from Asda and threw pants out a lot.

Potty training was the hardest thing we had to do, but we made it to the other side eventually!

[northyorksbelle]

It's definitely the hardest thing we have had to deal with. I can hardly believe how difficult this is. It isn't getting better and I'm close to breaking point - I know already how ridiculously melodramatic that sounds too but I cannot see an end to this. Woe is me!

[flowerfairy]

Sorry no improvement northyorksbelle. After a week of illness and not stressing about the toilet, dd has improved slightly. Like babybouncer says I have stopped getting so stressed about toilet visits which has been hard. enforce on school run or car rides, we are definitely having less battles, though and a few minor incidents. Though having said that today she had had an accident at nursery this morning which is the first time in 5-6 weeks. Ask nursery if they can support you, sticker chart or whatever they do for incentive.
Sorry I can't be any more help and it is so difficult not to let it upset you.
Hugs and strength in great abundance to you! x