Immigration at Liberty Members' Conference 2014

[ttosca]

Author and commentator Owen Jones exposes the current immigration debate in the UK during the Question Time-style panel at the Liberty Members' Conference 2014.

[Isitmebut]

Is there finally an ubber socialist who is concerned about the affects of a Labour Party secret immigration policy to add "diversity" on the then unemployed, homeless and welfare trapped indigenous multi cultural population from the 2000's to this day - finally apologizing for Labour's record in the 2000's?

If he doesn't apologize but can justify it in any way, please tell me and I'll watch it with even more interest.

[ttosca]

Who cares what you watch? You're a paid Tory scum propagandist.

PS: Immigrants are great.

[ironmaiden999]

Owen Jones, middle class tosser! Mass immigration a disaster. The less said about Owen Jones the better!!

[Mumzy]

Interesting when Ttoser starts
losing an argument he/she resorts to personal insults

[Isitmebut]

ttosca .. I am neither "paid" or anti immigration, in fact I am very much for CONTROLLED immigration, not the SECRET type a previous senior Labour insider mentions in the article below, as apparently they KNEW that the increase in NON EU immigration disguised by EU economic migrants would upset their own voters.

So was all this pressure on jobs, housing, schools, the NHS due to a Labour social engineering whimsy to “rub the Right’s nose in diversity”, that has gone terribly wrong?

Apparently not to the Labour Party if YOU are typical of the 'at any costs' behind it - and now through your new American spin doctor you will try to appeal to ethnic groups, as Obama did in 2012 when he had nothing to say on either reducing the national debt or the economy, for 'payback'.


“Labour wanted mass immigration to make UK more multicultural, says former adviser”

“Labour threw open Britain's borders to mass immigration to help socially engineer a "truly multicultural" country, a former Government adviser has revealed.”

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6418456/Labour-wanted-mass-immigration-to-make-UK-more-multicultural-says-former-adviser.html


And you as a Labour Party apologist has the front to call the Conservatives "scum", trying to cope with the pressures of 2.5 million more people on the indigenous MULTI CULTURAL society here in the 2000's.

[Isitmebut]

Reconcile these numbers, ESPECIALLY the NON EU numbers that needed the last government permission to reside/work, with their home building figures on another thread e.g. the 115,000 new homes a year average.

migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/long-term-international-migration-flows-and-uk
“Please note that the LTIM estimates used in this briefing are being revised by the ONS. In their 'Quality of Long-Term International Migration estimates from 2001 to 2011' report published on 10th April 2014, the ONS has revised the total net migration estimates for 2001-2011; this suggests that the total net-migration between 2001 and 2011 was underestimated by 346,000 net-migrants.”

New migration therefore is changed over a decade from just under 2.2 million to over 2.5 million.

Table 1... Inflows (thousands)…...EU……….Commonwealth………Other…...
Average 1991 – 1999……………...60,000………….87,000…………….86,000
Average 2000 – 2003……….…..…62,000………...101,000………....120,000
2004……………………………......…..130,000………...215,000………….155,000
2005………………………………........152,000……..….180,000………….137,000
2006………………………………........170,000……......201,000…………143,000
2007……………………..........….....195,000………...174,000……….…131,000

And here is the report that ADDS to the above EU figures.
“Immigration from eastern Europe was massively underestimated, says official report”

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10757336/Immigration-from-eastern-Europe-was-massively-underestimated-says-official-report.html

“Office for National Statistics admits it missed an estimated 350,000 in net migration over a decade because of flaws in a key survey.”

I wouldn't not call the Labour Party "scum", I'd be more descriptive; economically and socially incompetent - and all the facts and figures prove it.

[Isitmebut]

And based on those incredible figures of NON EU immigration when Labour had no idea how many EU citizens would come here, it's socialists 'payback' (insurance time) for dodgy boundaries Labour who only need 36% of the votes in 2015 for a decent parliamentary majority;


“Million foreign voters could sway result of next general election, warns report”

“A million Commonwealth citizens living in England and Wales should be stripped of the right to vote because they. could significantly influence the outcome of the next general election, according to a new report”

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10268870/Million-foreign-voters-could-sway-result-of-next-general-election-warns-report.html

“MigrationWatch UK said the general public would be “astonished” to learn how many non-Britons are permitted to take part in elections.”

“The group, which campaigns for tighter immigration, said it was a “hangover from the days of Empire” that citizens from 54 independent sovereign states, including Australia, Canada and India, can register on the electoral roll as long as they have an address in Britain.”

“MigrationWatch’s report said: “One possible reason why Lord Goldsmith’s report was largely ignored by the Labour government of the day is that voters from black and minority ethnic communities, some of whom will be Commonwealth citizens, are far more likely to vote Labour than Liberal Democrat or Conservative.”

“A report last year by the Runnymede Trust showed 68 per cent of black and Asian people backed Labour in the last general election, said the study, which also suggested the Commonwealth vote could be influential in the referendum on European Union membership.”

You see EU citizens cannot vote in our General Elections.

No plot there then ttosca.

[ttosca]

“Labour threw open Britain's borders to mass immigration to help socially engineer a "truly multicultural" country, a former Government adviser has revealed.”

You keep repeating this like it's a bad thing.

[ironmaiden999]

ttosca. Is it a good thing for a government to impose mass immigration without the consent of the people? Which they would not have got. Mass immigration and multiculturalism is bad for any country, multicultural means no culture. All countries have their own culture, and don't appreciate other cultures imposing theirs on them. We have clearly seen this in this country, when some muslim state funded schools teach children not the national curriculum but their version of a curriculum. Not flying the national flag, for fear of offence etc;

Multiculturalism has been a disaster.

That's why politicians don't mention it anymore.

Jack Straw and Tony Blair were traitors to this country, they couldn't care less that mass immigration not only challenged the identity of the people of this country, but also meant crowding in hospitals, schooling and housing, all hitting the poorest the most. Building more homes, carving up the countryside, all because now we have too many people in the country.

Managed migration as Australia has is positive for a country, that's what we should have had!

[Isitmebut]

"Consent of the people", or more accurate 'the lack of', is the point that ttosca and ilk don't WANT to get; but they knew their policy would not be popular back in 2001, but for whatever politically selfish reasons, thought it was worth it.

That is why I'm concerned their next ideological constitutional 'experiment' from 2015 will be to change the UK's religious description as 'Christian', purposely mis-interpreting the 2011 Census that we don't care anymore.

And that will not only be a boost Ukip, but refuel the BNP's support as well. IMO.

[ttosca]

ttosca. Is it a good thing for a government to impose mass immigration without the consent of the people?

It's not an imposition.

Which they would not have got. Mass immigration and multiculturalism is bad for any country,

Mutliculturalism is actually hugely beneficial to any country.

multicultural means no culture.

No, it means many cultures. World class cities like London, Paris, Berlin and New York thrive because of their multiculturalism.

It brings in new ideas and new life into cities. It increases tourism and creates and environment where people want to work and to live.

All countries have their own culture, and don't appreciate other cultures imposing theirs on them.

In fact, all countries are multi-cultural to a more or a less extent. Usually the more multi-cultural ones are the more successful ones - economically and culturally.

The US, for example, is a nation founded on immigration and is hugely multi-cultural. It is also the most economically successful nation on the planet. It is also one of the word leaders in science and innovation, nevermind music and other forms of art.

We have clearly seen this in this country, when some muslim state funded schools teach children not the national curriculum but their version of a curriculum. Not flying the national flag, for fear of offence etc;

This isn't a problem with multi-culturalism, but a problem of integration.

Multiculturalism has been a disaster.

Monoculturalism has been a disaster, and in fact, is no longer even possible - if it ever was. Nations which try to isolate themselves end up falling behind.

That's why politicians don't mention it anymore.

They don't mention it any more because they take it for granted - as they should - that any nation in the 21st century is going to be a mix of cultures from centuries on immigration and emigration and exchange of culture and ideas across borders.

[ttosca]

Nigel Farage schooldays letter reveals concerns over fascism

Channel 4 News obtains a letter about Ukip leader Nigel Farage, from his days as a schoolboy, in which teachers are quoted as accusing him of being "racist" and "fascist".

www.channel4.com/news/nigel-farage-ukip-letter-school-concerns-racism-fascism

[Isitmebut]

ttosca ….. please do not lecture me on multiculturalism, as I’ve mentioned elsewhere, for over 30-odd years I worked in various international companies, with my day job extensively speaking and travelling to different countries/regions and got to know their cultures and histories out of interest i.e. the Middle East and Japan. So I know all the benefits and need for CONTROLLED immigration economically and culturally.

Furthermore, although I clearly struggle with English lol, through the State education system I ensured my children learned 3-languages and went on exchange visits, hoping to get a decent French coffee machine for at least one of my children (boom, boom).

Seriously, my point here, and if your lot still don’t get it I seriously despair, is that IF repeat IF Labour had joined-up-policymaking – if you are going to have a secret agenda to increase the population to the extent they did, just increasing the Public Sector head count by over 1 million staff from 1997 to 2010 was not enough – Labour had to have a policy for our then UNEMPLOYED indigenous multicultural population and build more than an average 115,000 HOMES a year when the head count went up by 2.5 million.

This isn’t ideological rocket science, as the so called ‘benefits’ had to be weighed up with the ‘costs’ of open door EU and NON EU immigration; so yes we have become more multicultural…taa dah, but our unemployment rate was rising before the financial crash and this was Labour’s domestic housing legacy in 2009/10;

England is suffering a massive housing crisis. There simply aren’t enough decent, affordable homes.
england.shelter.org.uk/campaigns/why_we_campaign/the_housing_crisis_landing/the_housing_crisis

P.S. A good attempt to deflect on Labour’s record using Farage’s old school report, but going back that far you’re seriously grasping at racist straw (as IMO Farage isn’t), but as people ALREADY know what others in Ukip racially stands for, they don’t seem to care when ‘protesting’.

Ukip therefore like any lucky dog, will have another day on the 22nd May, but to appear on TV before the General Election, they will need to have to announce their UK domestic policies properly costed and attractive to ‘core’ U-kippers and two large socialist parties that are likely to form the next administration under Miliband in 2015 – and that is when the fun starts as Ukip comes under real scrutiny as being ‘all things, to all men’.

[ttosca]

You're a waste of time.

a) The UK has been producing a shortage of housing, especially affordable housing, for several decades.

b) I'm not 'deflecting' anything. This thread isn't about Labour's record on housing, as you can tell from the thread title.

c) Please stop wasting people's time.

[Isitmebut]

ttosca ….. you still don’t ‘get it’, socialists CANNOT have an informative debate on immigration WITHOUT putting housing (and jobs) in the equation – and it was Labour’s failure to do this in the 2000’s that gave so much oxygen to both Ukip and the BNP – and will continue to do so unless rectified.

You are correct that we have not built enough homes for decades, including the 1990’s when the west had a recession early on, and the UK homes market was in the doldrums (with big falls in ‘real’ price terms) and the government was looking to get the resulting annual budget deficit down.

But the 2000’s were different; a strong global economy, lower global inflation/interest rates and the deficit paid down by early 2000’s meant that the UK had a chance to rectify it as the Barker Review commissioned by Brown in 2003 pointed out for around £1.2 to £1.4 billion – yet Brown’s Labour chose to spend £170 billion on new Quango’s and allow 2.5 million new citizens in WITHOUT building any extra homes.

The (2004) Barker review: key points

www.theguardian.com/money/2004/mar/17/business.housing

"Kate Barker, a member of the monetary policy committee, was asked a year ago by Gordon Brown and the deputy prime minister John Prescott to carry out a review of the housing market in the UK."

"She was specifically required to look at what was behind the lack of supply of housing in the UK and the inability of the housing market to respond to this. Also within her remit was the role of the house-building industry, the level of competition within it, its capacity, technology and level of finance."

"The final review has now been published, just in time for Gordon Brown's budget."

The main findings

• In 2001, around 175,000 houses were built in the UK. This was the lowest number since the second world war. Over the past 10 years, the number of new houses built has fallen and is now 12.5% lower than in the previous decade.


• In the last 30 years, UK house prices have gone up at double the average rate of increase in the EU. In real terms, prices have increased by 2.4% a year in real terms - compared to the EU average of 1.1%.


• A weak supply in housing means a less stable economy. This has an impact on the flexibility of the labour market, which in turn puts a strain on economic growth.


• Low availability of properties pushes prices up, making housing increasingly unaffordable. In 2002 only 37% of new households in England could afford to buy a house, compared with 46% in the late 1980s.

• These pressures mean a greater divide between "haves and have-nots", driving a gulf between people who can afford housing and those who cannot. According to the review, in 2003 there were 93,000 households in temporary accommodation compared to 46,000 in 1995.


The fact is, thanks to Labour, the indigenous UK multiethnic population has found that the ‘benefits’ of more multiculturalism Labour style - totally unplanned for with no regards to the infrastructure, jobs and social ramifications – have been more than outweighed by the ‘negatives’, no matter how much the lefties try to spin it differently.