My friend was baptised yesterday and it freaked me out

[Moomin]

I've known him for about 16 years and he's a top bloke. he was good mates with my ex but when we split up me and his mate kept in touch and we visit him and his family 4 or 5 times a year.

We arranged to visit this weekend a few weeks ago. last week he asked us if we'd be prepared to stay a bit longer than usual as he was getting baptised and he'd really like us to be there. I was a bit surprised to learn this, as he's always been very sceptical about organised religion - not an athiest as such but he'd tried a few churches and meetings out along the way all the time I've known him and nothing really appealed. His wife is a christian but doesn't attend church every week and is 'quiet' about her beliefs, iykwim.

it wasn't until we got to the church that we realised it was an evangelical church, and the whole thing took us completely by surprise. I've never been to an evangelical service before and to be very honest I hated it. My friend stood up to be 'questioned' as part of the service and to give a confirmation and it was like he was a different person. he then had a whole body submersion as the baptism.

I can't think why i found this all so shocking except perhaps that i am so shocked at the short time it's taken him to 'find God' (he's been going to this church since April) and just how much it's affected him. He goes to church twice on sundays now, a bible meeting every week after work and breakfast meetings with his church group too. I'm gobsmacked. but i'm also wondering why this should be so? he's very happy and i'm happy for him, so what's my problem? I feel shocked and, like i said in the title, very freaked out. I haven't been able to stop thinking about it since we got back. The service and the people made me feel very uncomfortable. why?

[Spagblog]

I think to a non believer the whole evangelical thing seems like brain washing.

I was sucked into it during my teens and found the whole community really helpful to my lonely angst ridden teenaged self.

Whole thing makes me cringe now.

[moondog]

what you feel/think is actually irrelevant.it's not about you.

[Moomin]

i know the baptism isn't about me. but i am feeling very shocked at how the whole thing has made me feel, esp about how i feel about him. it just seems so... out of character if you like.

and how i feel isn't irrelevant, because it's me and my feelings and i'm questioning myself. aren't i allowed to have feelings just because it wasn't my baptism? i know i can't stop or change anything for him and i wouldn't want to, that's not the point. i'm just a bit confused and it's made me question why

[snowleopard]

Ahem. How non-religious people feel about religion not relevant? Erm, I'd quite like people to stop blowing up my planet and endangering me in the name of religion. That's about me. And I think feeling freaked out by a friend entering an evangelical faith is totally understandable.

[dazzlincaz]

Something about it all deeply disturbs you, Moomin. You are seeing your friend in a different light because of his new-found faith. His sincerity about this may be what has shocked you so much? Did you two ever talk about church stuff before or was this a kind of bolt from the blue?

[PrettyCandles]

I have had religious friends (several different religions), 'born-agains' (Jewish and Christian), converts (again, both Jewish and Christian), as well as totally non-religious friends. I have never had any issues with any of them, or found life uncomfortable with them, except when the religions were evangelical, or when the friend became extremely religious. It seems to me that the extremes and the evangelicals get somehow divorced from the reality of life that the rest of us live, and that the other religious people seem to relate to without any problems.

That's why I can understand Moomin's feelings. Her opinion is very relevant, if they are to remain friends. But his attitude is as well. If he's happy with his new life, fine. If he and his family are unharmed by it, fine. But if all he ever focusses on now will be evangelising Moomin - then how can their friendship continue?

[expatinscotland]

excellent post, snow.

yeah, i'd be taken aback. but only b/c i'm a liberal pinko.

and a pagan.

[Moomin]

we talked about religion from time to time. i knoew that he was interested in some spiritual things but that he had a lot of questions about it all. his mother in law is a devout christian and i know they talked about her faith from time to time and he was i think quite envious that she had such a strong faith. but i also know that he was quite cynical too. we catually had a mutal acquaintance at college who 'found god' in a similar way and he felt at the time that she had been exploited at a weak time by the church she got involved with. but there agin that was 15 years ago. things change.

but it's changed from being mildly spiritual and very questioning and curious to be bang-on outright 'i love jesus christ our lord' and totally accepting of everything the bible has to say and the very specific teachings of this church.

[expatinscotland]

hmmm. i've never had that happen to me, moomin. that would be a new experience.

he hasn't tried to get you to join up or that, has he?

[Moomin]

sorry about typos

[donnie]

just be happy for him FGS.

[expatinscotland]

she never said she wasn't, donnie, just that she didn't expect the feelings she had.

[Moomin]

well, it's only been since sunday that we've known about it! after the service his ds came over to talk to us. he's nearly 16 and a fabulous lad, very mature and excellent company. he doesn't have any strong faith that we know of. he asked me what i thought about it all and i told him i was feeling a bit freaked out. he said he was feeling the same and that he'd found out things about his dad in the last 30 mins that he'd never known before and he said he amost felt like he didn't really know his dad as well as he thought he did. but he's very accepting and supportive and he says if it makes his dad happy then it's ok. he said his dad had asked him to come along to a couple of meetings but he hadn't wanted to and his dad seemd ok so far with that. our friend asked my dh if he fancied coming to the morning service on sunday with him but dh didn't want to and, again he was fine about it. HIs wife did say to us on sunday morning (before we knew it was evangelical) that she thought maybe it would get a bit less intense eventually and settle down.

after the service we were introduced to a few people and they were all very keen on asking how we knew our friend, where we came from and did we go to church etc which i found very unsettling. one woman even made a comment when i told her i'd had the dds christened this year 'oh lovely, that's very good. it's such a shame they don't teach it in school nowadays', to which i replied ' well i think it's the parents' responsibility if they want their child to have a religious upbringing. you can't expect state schools to teach one particular faith as the only one in a multi-cultural society.' she just said 'i suppose so' but i could tell she wasn't having any of it!

am i being bigoted in feeling a very strong sense of dislike of these people? it all made me have an almost physical reaction! very very strange

[dazzlincaz]

Very common reaction Moomin

[Rhubarb]

bloody born agains!

[Moomin]

btw i was pretty sure when starting this thread i'd get some negative comments, but i reserve the right to have the feelings i do. it's not like i'm going to stop him feeling the way he does and like i said, if he's happy then i'm happy for him but uit has made me think abut how this kind of belief might encroach o other areas of his life (and that of his son and wife, etc) e.g. surely if he feels as strongly as he does then he won't be truely happy util his family share his particular brand of happiness? is that how evangelism works? i don't know an awful lot about it. i can only go by gut feelings and i hated the way it made me feel.

i go to our CofE church from time to time and it makes me feel calm and our vicar has been a great listener as i've mulled over lots of things to do with spirituality (i still don't know what i really feel but my church has given me the space to think about it without judging or pushing me). From what i undrstand about sunday's service, this church 'KNOWS' it has all the answers and i'm very shocked that my friend is accepting of all this, given his history, his questioning and his liberalism.

[dazzlincaz]

Does your friend's wife agree with his views?

[jasper]

I was brought up in a church where this sort of baptism is commonplace.
I can see how it might freak you out a bit if you are unused to it.

it is done as a biblical principle.It's all about declaring your desire to follow Jesus.I may be wrong but I think the whole point it to slightly freak out onlookers!To make them see that you are taking a stand for your faith and doing something a bit odd looking.

Jesus baptised believers in the river Jordan.
I have seen some baptisms in rivers and it was amazing.

Born again Christians seem to be the only legitimate target for slagging nowadays.(don't mean you moomin)

[expatinscotland]

but there's no slagging! she's just admitting she was taken aback by it and some others admitted they would be, too.

[Pruni]

Message withdrawn

[jasper]

nicely put pruni.

A dear friend (male) married a woman I think is a total waste of space.It takes a lot for me not to like someone but this woman could run a course on it.
It pains me every time I think about the fact he married her and am certain it won't last!
Maybe you feel like this about your friend, that his new religious outpourings does not fit with how you thought of him and almost undermines your friendship? That's how I view the friend who married the chump.

[dazzlincaz]

Good comparison, Jasper.

Churches vary in their intensity and for those brought up to attend ones like Moomin's C of E which doesn't judge or push, an experience of the evangelical variety is the other end of the scale! No wonder it shocked you Moomin

Are you wondering about the future of your friendship, as the person you knew has changed quite dramatically from what you describe in your opening of this thread?