anyone else trying to find a different way to be Christian?

[nearlythree]

Don't quite know what I mean by that, but I'm longing for something different from what the church offers, and wondered if anyone else feels the same?

[gettingthere]

Are you going to the right church? I know that sound silly but not all churches actually preach the same message. Lots of places I've been talk about friendship and being nice but nothing about the real message of Christianity.

[fistfullofnappies]

what do you actually want from Christianity? And what dont you like about your church?

agree, that in the Church of England, it is probably just a matter of changing to a different church!

[expatinscotland]

I did. And found paganism .

[amazinggrace2001]

hi ther,
am interested what kind of church you go to and how long you have been going.I have only recently starting going to my local church as it all suddenly made sense to me and had been drawn to go for a while ,I had just been put off by my own pre conceptions about 'church' and Christianity and Jesus. Have you been to Greenbelt or Soul survivor festival or anything a bit different- there is a lot of inspirational Christian stuff out there.

[amazinggrace2001]

Thats funny expat as i tried paganism and wicca and found it wasnt enough for me- ok I enjoy festivals to worship the seasons , the Sun and moon but still didnt really answer my questions about how or who created them!! Getting back to the point, nearly three, what is it you are looking for- do you want to become more actively involved in something?

[nearlythree]

Firstly, I must apologise for posting this thread three times - i must look like a total egomaniac!

Thanks for all your replies, everyone.

Okay, where do I start? Well, I used to be very active in the CofE - studied the bishops' course, served on the PCC and deanery synod, even got so far as starting to process for ordination to the priesthood. But in the past year I've become very disillusioned with the CofE, and also found that traditional worship wasn't right for me any more. I've re-evaluated what I believe and no longer believe a lot of what the Creed says I should.

I've been drawn to paganism too, and re-discovered Christianity through Celtic Christianity which is very creation-centred. I think I woudl like a more earth-centred approach to my Christianity, and would like to incorporate other traditions within that. However, I did once have a bad experience with someone who was using tarot in relation to myself so would be wary of anything that embraces that. And I do have very positive experiences as a Christian...it's just that they don't seem to be happening any more.

[fistfullofnappies]

difficult to know what to make of that...I recently came to the conclusion that I cant call myself Christian, because I cant come to terms with Easter. I hate Jesus dying (please dont tell me that he didnt die anyone, thats not the point!), and I never see anything inspiring about it. I can't follow the idea that he triumphed by not resisting his enemies and letting them kill him. It just seems to me to be so much propaganda from kings - just let the king have his way on earth, and you'll get your reward in heaven.

[amazinggrace2001]

hi there,
interesting what you were saying about Celtic christianity- have you ever visited Iona? Also have you heard of been to Othona Community- they are very broad based community- one in Essex, one in Dorset.I am going to Buddhafield festival which is very much earth centred, often wondered whether a similar Christian festivla would be appealing to people.

[nearlythree]

fistfullofnappies, I agree entirely with what you say about Jesus dying. I no longer believe in Easter as most churches explain it, either. I don't believe that Jesus died to take our sins away (the Atonement); he didn't come to show us how to die, but how to live. His message was too dangerous for the authorities and so they killed him. It was never something that God required. It makes Jesus all the more amazing in my eyes; he entered his ministry knowing he would probably be put to death (he'd seen John the Baptist be killed already) and yet he was prepared to sacrifice himself, with no idea of the Resurrection. I know that there are many people who would say that such a belief means that I can't be a Christian, but I love and follow Jesus Christ and I have God in my life and always heave done.

amazinggrace, yes, I am very interested in the Celtic Christian communities, in fact I thought about joining the Community of Aidan and Hilda at on epoint, but then dd1 came along! Also really like the Northumbria Community's liturgies. Othona is actually our nearest community so maybe I should check them out once the children are a bit bigger (ds is only 7 weeks.) But I know from previous experience that I can't go it alone, I need to be a part of a Christian community - but not a church -, and my lifestyle means that travelling away from home regularly is impossible. I need to find something close to home.

Maybe I am searching for something that doesn't exist?

[albatros]

How can it be that you don't believe in Easter but you can belive in immaculate conception? Is it not all a fairy tale?. I think you are looking for something that does not exist.
WE ARE OUR OWN GODS

[nearlythree]

Don't believe in the immaculate conception either!

[albatros]

What do you believe in ?
I am an atheist ( as you might have guessed . I was brought up as a strict Catholic, luckely for me the local girls catholic school closed the year I was due to start and I started at the local state comp. What a mind openner I discovered people here who had never been to church, didn't pray, didn't feel guilty for the tinest thing they had done wrong and lived their lives as they wanted not being told how to conform.
To me religion is a way of making people conform to a particular behaviour so they can be controlled. My energies are now put to greater use in actively taking part in my local community, enviroment and politics.
If you have chosen a religious path then that is your choice but I strongly disagree with anyone that pushes their child into it (I am not saying you do BTW) I spent hours learning fairy tales and lies when I could have been taught much more useful things. I was afraid and guilty for much of my youth that the wrath of 'god' would come down on me for petty things like taking an extra biscuit (which I got sentanced to 2 Our Fathers and 10 Hail Marys for, at my first confession aged 9)
If you are looking for a community join a local Friends of the Earth or similar group at least your time will be spent doing something worthwhile

[kickassangel]

nearlythree, have you tried googling the alternative services in and around england? there's quite a network, with quite a broad range of beliefs. i went to one in york, where several budhists went as they found it the 'best' place to worship, although they weren't christian. if you can't find somehwere local, they tend to be technically adept, and could provide wome interesting internet discussions.
i'm out of touch now, but try with 'visions' in york - i think they have a web site.

[nearlythree]

What do I believe in? Good question...

Well, I believe that God exists, not as a bloke in the sky but as the source of all being. Probably best said that God is love. I believe that Jesus shows us the way to live to bring about God's kingdom here and now in earth, i.e. a place where people are treated fairly and with love. I don't believe in the 'carrot and stick' reason for being Christian - be good and you to to heaven, be bad and you get damned forever. Yes, much of the Bible is a fairy story, but like many such fables it has a lot to teach us and can't just be dismissed, and at its heart is a nugget of truth. Don't believe that Christianity is the only way, but I believe it's my way.

Don't blame you for one minute for believing what you do and feeling the way you do about Christianity. It makes me so angry, but that type of religion really is man-made b***t.

Can't not believe; I've always felt God with me, although it was years before I knew what 'it' was. So I do bring our children up to believe, not in a dogmatic Christianity, but one where they are encouraged to explore, experience, respect, and think for themselves. Certainly a belief in an afterlife helped dd1 when her friend died recently. (Not even sure I believe in an afterlife myself, but I live in the hope of one).

Oh, and we are in FoE and the Green party!

[nearlythree]

Thanks, kickass, will give it a go!

[albatros]

I could have had extra spelling practice instead of praying

[kickassangel]

OK, brave attempt at a link here
\link{http://www.visions-york.org/}

[kickassangel]

oh crap

can't get it to work, but it's easy to find, and has loads of links

[albatros]

I think you can live a life with fairness and treating others well without Christianity.
If Jesus did exist I think he was a socialist.
I have enjoyed hearing your views and hope you find what you are looking for. I would like to carry on as there is alot more I would like to ask you, so I can understand why anyone would want religion in their life but I have to log off now as I've got an early start tomorrow

[amazinggrace2001]

albatros,
really sorry to hear that Christianity was spoilt for you in childhood by people with warped ideas about the Bible.i was brought up an atheist so carry no religious baggage but remember going to friends' sunday schools and being put off by what they were saying (hellfire and brimstone)and how boring it was!!
nearly three, i agree totally with your beliefs and think these are actually the main tenets of Christianity, like you say all the rest is manmade bull interpretation.
As a relatively new Christian, i was pretty surprised when i actually started reading the Bible that it all made such sense and was very inspirational.
i thyink a lot of the carrot and stick stuff is left over from when ordinary people had no access to the Bible and were made to go to church and had to rely on the clergy to interpret it for them.Probably the heaven and hell concept a good way of frightewning people into submission??

[SleepyJess]

Nearlythree, that last post of yours could have been spoken by me!! We have 'spoken' before on a thread in this section and I remember agreeing with all you said on this subject last time.

I am currently doing an Alpha course even though many would take me to be at least an 'established' christian (although not a devout one!). Truth be told, although I was brought up within the community of the angilican c of e, and am still very involved in it, I have many many questions. The Alpha group I am attending has mostly members of my church in it and I think they are a little surprised by the questions I am asking to say the least.

I too feel close to God.. more so these days than I ever have.. but I sometimes feel very uncomfortable with aspects of the worhsip I get involved in; whether it's just the pomp and ceremony of it all I don't know. Mainly it's the concept of all these 'requirements'.. I just don't think God has them! I also find myself not knowing what to think about the crusifiction, the resurrection etc.. even through I grew up with it never occuring to me to question them.

I believe God is US and we are God.. and that He (/she!) is in everything. Today I was at a church family barbecue with my family and spent half an hour talking to a priest (newly ordained last week) who runs the Alpha group, and asking him some of the things I can't ask at Alpha. (It's way too structured I think.. all my questions seem to lead to digressions from what is in that blasted book.. and I can sense people disapproving, lol!) He was actually very good wth my questions and said that he too does not believe such pomp and ceremony is necessary and that he 'does it' because he uses it as a traditional 'tool' not because he thinks God requires it. He also agreed with me that we are not supposed to have all the answers.. and that 'hell' is an man-made construction... and that Christianity is not 'the way' for everyone.

I think I would have more faith in the c of e if more priests were like this bloke!

I would be really interested to hear what you decide nearlythree, about finding 'something different'. Your questions sound so much like mine!

SJ x

[nearlythree]

albatross, I agree totally that you don't have to be a Christian to treat people well, there is a lot more to it than that, but how we regard others should be transformed by our relationship with God - obviously for many Christians it isn't. Would Jesus have signed up to any political movement? Who knows, but you'll find a pretty good potted communist manifesto in Acts. I've enjoyed chatting too, I'd be happy to carry on some time. Not that I can explain why I need faith (not religion) in my life; it's like trying to explain why I have blue eyes or something - because it's a part of me.

amazinggrace, so how did you become a Christian? IME most new Christians seem to be on the evangelical wing of the church; those with beliefs similar to ours mostly have been Christians for a while but no longer can accept what the churches traditionally teach.

[kickassangel]

i think there are a lot of people who believe in 'something' but aren't sure in what form they want to express this, although they do know it's important to them & they want to pass this on. i rarely go to curch now as i just find so much of it is about control & rules. not what i want. i used to be quite involved in 'alternative' worship, which is less rigid than 'traditional' c of e , but not completely open. unfortunately most alternative churches are run by younger people, and haven't necessarily crossed into the world of family worship. the churches in my village are wither fire and brimstone (about 50 attenders) or 'we want to sit with our friends and sing songs we know' (about 200 attenders). neither appeals!
sometimes feel quite lonely as there doesn't seem to be anyone i know who shares my version of belief, but also has a family, and has to be 'in the real world' of work. they can all be quite insular worlds, and it's difficult mixing them. finding someone with the same mix is almost impossible.

[MaryBS]

Nearlythree - not sure if I've told you this, but I went to a 'non-mainstream' community church once (held in a school hall, led by a pastor), and was told I was 'damned to hell' by a member of the welcoming committee

I can laugh about it now (although I didn't at the time), in fact I'm tempted to go back and tell her what I'm doing with my life, but sometimes its the 'organised religion' that contains the more forgiving people

[harrisey]

nearlythree - you might feel comfortable in the
Iona Community or the
Northumbria Community
or online, try the Ship of Fools for something thought provoking.