alternative baptisms

[nearlythree]

Can anyone help? We have had our dds baptised in the CofE but I've since left the church. We now have ds but we don't want him baptised in church - at least, not the CofE. Does anyone have any experience of alternatives?

[nearlythree]

giving this a bump in case anyone has any ideas!

[SaintGeorge]

What is it you want - a religious service or something simply to say 'here he is and his name is X'?

There are plenty of alternatives out there but first you need to decide what it is you want from it before you can make any decisions.

You can have quite a formalised ceremony without involving religion/church (Humanist Society for example) or you could simply arrange something yourself.

We had lovely summer outdoor parties with just a few words from the people we chose as sponsors. All the children present gave a flower to the baby and then all the adults got slightly drunk

[suejonez]

Have you had a look at this thread?
naming ceremonies

[nearlythree]

Thanks for your replies. I definitely want a baptism but I don't want it to be in church - I'm still a Christian but no longer support organised religion as represented by the churches. I know I'd be on shakey ground theologically but I don't even care if it's done by a recognised priest or not. I too fancy the outdoor party thing (actually I think the original ones were outside!), and giving ds flowers would be lovely.

[suejonez]

I don;t think there's anything to stop you putting religious content into a naming ceremony but no established minister would conduct it I don't think.

[mcmudda]

We haven't had our children baptised or christened because we're Christians and infant baptism isn't a Christian or biblical concept - it's a Church thing IYSWIM. We had a "dedication" service instead with all the promises about bringing up children and teaching them about what we believe as a family, but also acknowledging that ultimately it's their decision for when they are old enough to understand. Some other Christian friends have had blessings or welcoming services for the same reason. Most Bible-believing Christian ministers/church leaders would probably provide something similar I think.

[MaryBS]

Is there a community church or anything like that near you?

I'm sorry you've had so much trouble with the church... I'd be interested in hearing more about it if you're willing to share. I know you've had a lot of problems, and I really feel for you - I was so pleased to hear your DS had arrived safely, I was so worried for you.... hope you and your family are all well...

[Xavielli]

We also had a dedication service and will be having another for DD. I agree that baptism should be an adult and informed choice,as you can't speak for a baby, this is what the bible says.

[Nettee]

What about a unitarian baptism? spriritual but not prescriptive. There is an example here

[Jimjamskeepingoffvaxthreads]

If you're still religious you could look at vineyard churches, although they might expect a lot of involvement. My friend's dh runs a church and I think they baptise in their swimming pool (I could have that wrong heard it 3rd hand). Years ago I went to a c of E (hapy clappy) baptism in the sea.

[nearlythree]

Hi, thanks for all the replies. I am a believer in infant baptism primarily because of my own experience of it, it is something that was very important to me when I was growing up.

Nettee, that is exactly the kind of thing that I had in mind, thank you. My beliefs are probably more in line with the Unitarians than the CofE these days, but our nearest church is too far away to get to easily. I wonder if the priest (if that's the right word!) would come closer to us?

Mary, thanks for your concern, I have been meaning to post to you but as you may have read dd2 was taken very ill the day after ds was born, and since then she's got better but then all three have had chicken pox. It's been very traumatic, thank you for your prayers.

I could bore for England as to why I've left the CofE but basically I want to raise my family in a just and loving church and I've come to the conclusion that the CofE is neither. It's been so painful, like realising a lover isn't the person you thought they were, with all the disillusionment and shattered dreams. Maybe I could have put up with the ridiculous spats over the gay issue and women bishops if locally the church had been different, but having been on the receiving end of the nastier side of it I've decided we are well out of it - and despite the pain it feels great.

[MaryBS]

nearlythree - I'd be interested to hear how you get on ... sorry I'm not a lot of use. I did hear some of the problems you were having - it must have been awful, hope everyone is well now!

I personally have been very lucky in my experience of the C of E. Firstly when I wanted to get remarried in church, I met a lovely Vicar, very compassionate and understanding, was willing to listen, and to marry us. Secondly when I had the children and was unsure as to where to get them baptised, I met lovely curate who was able to help me, and start me on the road back to God. Thirdly when we moved here, and the Vicar and his wife (both now v. good friends) helped me to come to terms with not being a Catholic and to find peace in the C of E, and, although it was never anything THEY suggested, a possible vocation in the church.

Sorry, I digress.... .

[nearlythree]

I'm glad things are working out for you, Mary. I once loved the CofE so much, and as you know thought I had a vocation to the priesthood. It's been so hard to work out just exactly where I am supposed to be going but I do believe it's all been an essential part of my journey, however difficult.

[MaryBS]

Thats it, often its years later when you find out that what has happened is God's purpose. Ypou just don't see it at the time...

I've just read a GREAT book, its called "Nice girls don't change the world". Not a very long book, takes about 15 mins to read, but inspirational. Its about a woman, a pastor's wife, who spent most of her life trying to do God's will, when she realised that God was trying to tell her to slow down, that she was effectively killing herself in His name, trying to please too many people all of the time. I've read it twice since I bought it on Saturday, and I've now lent it to the Vicar's wife (hope the Vicar doesn't take it personally - I bought it for me, not because I was trying to get a message to his wife )

[nearlythree]

Hmm. I don't believe God has a will, in the sense of God having an individual plan for each of us. I see God more as the source of life, not something who can interfere -or who woudl want to interfere - in that way. I believe the only 'plan' God has is that we are open to his/her presence. For example, I really think that God was with the wonderful people who looked after us in hospital as an answer to my prayers, and that is where I find God in that situation - not that it was planned from the start that we would be there. So when I say going to church was a part of my journey, I believe I was being guided there, but only because it was right for me at that moment - not that it was God's will, but somewhere I could explore - and if I turned away, there would be a different opportunity open up. I have no idea if I am on the right track now or not, because it has all been so painful, but it is starting to feel very positive as I can feel God with me.

Some close friends are leaving our village because they believe it is God's will that the dh persue his ministry elsewhere. This is a great personal cost to his family esp. his wife, and also to our community. I really admire their faith and determinism but it's a belief I don't understand. Not because I don't think faith shouldn't be costly - of course it should - but that I don't believe there is such a thing as 'God's will', only a human understanding of what we think will be our best path to getting closer to him/her.

[suejonez]

nearlythree - I have had many dealings with american adoptive parents and (on the whole) they tend to be more religious than UK adoptive parents. Many of them believe that God has chosen their particular child for them. I even know of one couple who chose not to go ahead with the adoption of their "chosen" child so apparently God picked them another one. It drives me mad! No mention of personal responsibility, promoting bonding and attachment etc It has severely jaudiced my (already wobbly) view of Christianity.

I find your approach interesting and refreshing and I may now have to go away and think a bit more...

If you find an established church/religion which suits you, do let me know - I suspect it will suit me too.

[MaryBS]

nearlythree, I don't think we're that far apart, and who is to say who is right? I believe people can and do make mistakes about what is God's will for them. To quote a silly example, I had a creepy guy stalking me when I was 16, because God had told him that I was the one for him and that we were going to be together
I believe we have choices and as you say, new choices open up. I do find some people's interpretation of what God has in mind for us can be seriously skewed (to put it politely).

suejonez - that adoption example is horrific! I find it hard to come to terms with people like that. As I've said before, I don't believe a loving God would do something like that, and if I did, I would not want to follow Him. I can't work people out sometimes....

[suejonez]

I'm glad you are shocked too. I did wonder whether it was me being over sensitive but I really can't describe how shocked I was. I wasn't shocked by the fact that they had decided not to proceed with the adoption, its a heart breaking decision to make and you need to be absolutely sure you're doing the right thing. But I can't beleive that they didn;t just say, we received the medical report and decided that we couldn;t cope with the challenges her medical conditions would bring (or whatever).

I really try hard to be tolerant of others, but that particular one I find very hard (can you tell?!).

[nearlythree]

Sue, I'm shocked, too, but not surprised. It's amazing what people can justify if they want to. Like, it's okay to persecute gay people because God doesn't want them in his church. The Christianity as exemplified by the right-wing church in the U.S. is totally alien to me - it's not really Christianity at all.

I've looked into the various faiths/denominations and feel that Quakerism or the Unitarians might be where I am at. Both have websites and the Quakers will send you a very good info pack on request. Our nearest Unitarian church is too far to get to, but we do have a huge Quaker presence in our nearest town so will go to a meeting once things are a bit more settled. Don't know if the silence will suit me, I like music and stuff but we will see. I've found several books very helpful in shaping my thinking, and can recommend those by John Spong, Marcus Borg and Hilary Wakeman. John Spong in particular is notorious in Anglican circles for his 'controversial' views - well worth a look.

Mary, I don't think we are far apart at all - there has to be a connectedness as we both have the Spirit in our lives. As for who is right, well that is certainly not me!

[nearlythree]

Btw the Quakers don't do baptisms. The Unitarians do though.

[suejonez]

I've looked at the Quakers before but just can't feel I beling there. I'll look up the Unitarians - went to a beautiful Unitarian Church designed by Frank Lloyd Wright once and loved it.

I have had good experiences of CofE due to a gay female priest who was the chaplain at a CofE charity I was trustee of and was always fond of her services.

I'm a CofE kind of person IYKWIM - undemonstrative and like structure, but I just can't take communion (and certainly can;t be doing with no women bishops but that should change soon). I just don't beleive it (communion)even though I know its really only symbolic. I've tried not taking communion and when I do attend a service I just havea blessing but I just feel like a spare part and not part of the service.

I should relly start nvestigating properly as I want my child to be brought up in a faith. Any other suggestion?

Sorry i seem to have hijacked your thread.

[MaryBS]

nearlythree - its not for me to say whether you're right or not. I feel close to you because, like you say, the spirit is in both our lives. Anyone with the spirit can't be wrong! :D
God moves in mysterious ways, I don't claim to have the answers, I just know what God says in my heart.

My nature is not to judge - I've been judged too many times. Here I am, someone who was told she was damned to hell..... if you've seen the prayer thread, you'll know I have just been accepted to start Reader training, for which I thank God. Now, with God's blessing, I have a chance to make a difference....

[MaryBS]

Suejonez - I have had so many disagreements with our friends over the pond. Don't get me wrong, they're not all like that, but I find their brand of religion hard to take.

As for receiving Communion, I have to say that sometimes that's when I feel closest to God. For a while, while I was sorting myself out, I couldn't receive communion. Now I've found a church where I belong, I'd feel bereft if I DIDN'T receive communion. I have felt closer to God then, than at many times, and have felt the spirit within me.

Wow! You said you were undemonstrative. I would say that until recently, I was undemonstrative.

Find a place where you're happy, don't believe that everyone who says they're a Christian is going to behave in a Christ-like manner, listen to what God has to say, and you won't go far wrong.

[suejonez]

No really I am undemonstrative - I can;t even be doing with all this issing people in church that goes on now - nothing wrong with a good firm handshake in my opinion! I'm much more of a thinker than a doer, don't feel the need to bond with other people (or at least not in an instant kind of way, obviously would be open to normal bonding over a period of time).

I'd be very happy with a beautiful hymn to sing, a thoughful prayer or reading and a nice think in a lovely building. A woman of simple pleasures me...

[suejonez]

obviously that was meant to be Kissing people (try not to iss complete strangers)