Other dogs always attack my chocolate lab...

[Catherinedeneuve]

Would be very grateful if anyone had any advice. We have a chocolate lab, 11 months old, who is very gentle and biddable. He's friendly with other dogs but always goes into a submissive pose with bigger dogs to show that he is no threat. But for some reason, other dogs, whatever the breed, seem to go for him all the time. We've had 8 incidents in as many days and someone suggested it was because he hadn't been castrated yet, but my vet says this is unlikely. He wants us to wait until he is 15 months old, because he had some joint problems early on.
I'm not the sort of person to row with strangers but have had all sorts of stand-up shouting matches in my local park recently! It brings out the maternal instinct to see my dog crying and being bitten by another. It's all sizes, although little dogs are worst and time and time again I'm told, 'he/she never normally does this'. Does anyone have any thoughts or advice on this? Thanks in advance.

[Catherinedeneuve]

Just wanted to bump this up in the hope that someone is out there....

[LovingthePink]

I am sorry to hear you are having a nightmare. I am no help at all I am afraid as we rarely meet other dogs on our walks with our choc lab. (We live in the sticks) I would take a walking stick with you when you go for a walk just for protection. Is he being bitten when on the lead? I was wondering if he is a usual busy lab and the other dogs get fed up with him so snap?

[Catherinedeneuve]

Thanks for your reply, LTP. He is usually off the lead, although not always. He sometimes runs up, all enthusiastic, but with bigger dogs he goes into that slightly comical hunched over submissive mode, just to let them know he's not a threat. People used to say it was because older dogs don;t like puppies, but although not full grown, he doesn't really look that puppyish anymore.
I can't tell you the number of times people say, 'ooh, he's never done that before' and I didn;t believe them until this w/e, when my friend visited with her usually passive puppy that went for him within minutes. She said the same thing and it made me wonder whether I should have believed all those other folk!

[HappyWithThree]

Still me (LTP) I am trying out new names!!! Can't think of a good one at the moment. Do you go to training classes or socialisation classes?

[Threadworrm]

I have a terrier that will attack some other dogs -- so I put him on lead when there are dogs around that I don't know him to be friendly with.

He's fine with some dogs and not fine with others. He doesn't seem to like large, young, confident dogs. What he seems to want to do (if I would let him) is give them one assertive bite to secure submission.

I think it is the combination of being large a bit 'in your face', but lacking the maturity to be genuinely dominant that sets him off.

That doesn't help you to stop other dogs behaviour but it might be a partial explanation of why it happens.

I can only suggest working on obedience and preventing him from approaching dogs that you aren't sure will welcome him.

I think that castration plus growing maturity will make it gradually less of a problem.

[percent]

I have exactly the same problem with my boxer. Sadly after many attacks alot of them when he was on the lead(dogs coming under hedges and out of gardens to bite him), he is now no longer dog friendly, though ok with two dogs he grew up with.

I have seen dogs I know are dog friendly, simply turn and attack him.
I did castrate him at 20 months due to an undescended testicle and it has made absolutely no difference to how other dogs are with him.

At traning class the trainer used to use him as a dummy dog to calm dogs down, that's how laid back he was. Now he sees another dog approaching and his body language changes as he prepares to fight.

Sadly it means I can't walk him with my children as although he is obedient, I have the other owner syndrome.This is where I put him on the lead explain he doesnt like other dogs and other owners say "Oh my dog's fine!" and then it promptly attacks him, followed by "OOOH He's never done that before!" And I believe them, he just brings out the worst in other dogs! It's really sad.

[bella29]

Hello Catherine

My only idea is that your lab has outgrown the puppy phase (when other dogs tend not to attack, because they can see it's a pup) and that you unfortunately meet a lot of other dogs who for some reason don't like your dog's body language or whatever.

I think it is important your dog isn't soured by these experiences, and that obedience classes or similar would be a good way of getting him to learn doggy body language. Was he socialised much as a pup? What kind of submissive pose does he adopt?

[ohdearwhatamess]

It is quite common with darker coloured dogs. Supposedly other dogs find it hard to see their eyes and read their faces and so find them quite threatening.

That doesn't help you with dealing with the problem though, does it. Wish I could say something helpful.

If it is any help I'll ask a dog behaviour expert friend of mine for her thoughts when I see her at the weekend.

[bella29]

Just read your earlier bit again about his submissive mode - do you mean he goes down on his front legs but keeps his back legs straight? That's called a play bow and is an invitation to play. Older dogs may feel he is being over boisterous and will put him in his place.

I'll be contentious here and say if the other dog gave my younger dog a nip for running up to them and doing that, I would blame myself for letting my pup do that. They must learn to approach other dogs politely, so to speak.

[tengreenbottles]

Its a tough one isnt it seeing your dog appeared to be bullied, can i just ask when your dog is bitten by the other dogs ,do they stop when he yelps ? or do they carry on ? has he got obvious wounds or are the other dogs just nipping ? I only ask because i walk my dog in a area where lots of other dogs are walked and it seems that the dogs like to organise a hierachy amongst themselves ,once done ,then everyone gets along fine .

[Catherinedeneuve]

Thanks so much everyone - loads of helpful stuff here, at least in terms of possible explanations. We did puppy classes for ages at the beginning and he was really good. Is very well behaved and very sociable. The submissive body language is not the playing one, is a sort of bizarre curling downwards of head and bum (he looks like a right twit when he does it ) and he flattens his whole body down. It is very obviously a message that he is no threat.
Thing is, too, is that he doesn;t bound up all the time. Really often (today included!! Has happened with repeat offender since I posted!) a dog will come up to him and then it will all kick off.
Would be so grateful for the view of the animal behaviour person, Ohdear, thank you. And threadworm, your description sounds sort of spot on too in some ways, although he isn't that in your face really. Does feel as though it's a smell rather than a body language thing! But thanks to everyone who has posted here. Tenngreen, they don't stop when they hurt him. They carry on

[ohdearwhatamess]

What is his tail doing when he goes into submissive mode?

Is it tucked under his body (what I'd expect if he was scared)? Up in the air (can be seen as agressive and or dominant)? Is it moving at all?

Are his ears foward or back?

(Appreciate you might not have noticed these things when you're trying to deal with a horrible situation and to separate dogs).

Just trying to get a complete picture....

[WorzselMummage]

If my dog kept getting attacked while i was out walking i'd start carrying a big stick.

[Catherinedeneuve]

Hmm, stick is tempting!

Ohdear, his ears are flat and his tail is tucked under. He doesn't do this all the time but does do it always with bigger dogs, as if to tell them he won't be any trouble.
There is a large greyhound (evil beast) that gave him quite a frightening going over when he was a few months old and he has done this since then. He does go over to dogs before he does this....like he's saying, 'look, can we play? I promise you can be boss'
Could break yer bleedin' heart, honestly!

[ohdearwhatamess]

Ah, that does sound very submissive. I was wondering if he was doing something that othe dogs might find threatening but it doesn't sound like it.

Poor thing - he sounds really scared.

[darwin]

Hi although this is not helpful really both my dogs have disliked big black and brown labs , not sure why. Hope he stops getting attacked that is really sad

[Catherinedeneuve]

Thanks very much.
He's such a lovely dog. He doesn;t bark at the door or anything either....might that be significant? That he's just a very passive chap?

[Catherinedeneuve]

Thanks very much.
He's such a lovely dog. He doesn;t bark at the door or anything either....might that be significant? That he's just a very passive chap?

[Catherinedeneuve]

oops!

[ScarletA]

Not much help but I see it happening very often with the labrador breed. They are very common and instantly recognisable and it's like all the other dogs KNOW they are sweet natured, non dominant dogs and so they go into instant bully mode.

My dog (collie lurcher) is rather partial to a lab but he likes to mount them... I know that is dominating behaviour too and he's very easy to call off but it only seems to happen with labs (black ones in particular). It seems they are 'easy meat' in the twisted dog world.

I would carry a stick or get hob nailed wellies. That would learn em.

[Catherinedeneuve]

Wow, I had no idea that labs were recognised as a soppy breed! That's really fascinating. If depressing.......

Trouble is, I back on to the park and have lots of nice friends in there. Would hate to get a reputation as the 'one who beats dogs with sticks'.....

Much as I'm bloody well tempted!

[ScarletA]

I'm no expert on dogs (just had a few) but if you are not prepared to lay in with a stick (you sane, nice person, you) then what about a whistle? Or a shakey bottle of lentils? Not to beat the offending dog with, of course, but to startle it with the noise? That's what the dog behaviour people say to do to stop unwanted behaviour - though admittedly it might scare your dog too .

Or how about a well aimed water pistol? Admittedly that would mean walking in the park with a gun in your pocket - not something to do lightly in my neighbourhood - but perhaps an idea?

[Catherinedeneuve]

Hmm, I'm liking that. This one little terrier bastard who has gone for my chap three times in a week, I swear I almost kicked the little sod today! Maybe a water pistol would be better!
Are you sure I can't beat them with the lentil shaker though

[Robespierre]

these are quite effective

[combustiblelemon]

An extending lead so that he can have some freedom but you can draw him closer to you if there's a dog nearby. Also a big stick.