Mums with kids in childcare - you're damaging them!

[handlemecarefully]

Not my opinion, but take a look at this thread:

is it just me or is some of this irritating?

I don't want to start a ruck, but tbh some of these observations pissed me off and I may need an antidote!

Personally I don't think one model (SAHM or working mum with childcare) is necessarily better than the other - it depends on the child. I wouldn't dream of making comments to Polina that sparked off this debate along the lines of her child would miss out by not being in Nursery.

But quite frankly, I didn't expect to read responses which implied that:
*a lot of working parents feel guilty
*some are jealous of the bond SAHM's have with their children (what I don't have a bond with mine?)
*that children of SAHMs have more varied and interesting experiences than those in Nursery
*that Nursery makes under 2's aggressive etc etc
*and even a proselytizing teacher 'asking' us to stay at home with pre-schoolers

For the record I've got nothing against SAHMs, and am toying with the idea of giving up my part time job to be one (tired of all the juggling etc - not so easy with two)..but I found it all rather ironic that there was shock at the tactless and innaccurate remarks made by some working parents to Polina, yet some of the respondents to her thread felt that it was okay to take a pot shot back.

[handlemecarefully]

Before anyone responds to this (if indeed anyone does), can I repeat that I don't want it to denegerate into an 'us' and 'them' row. Don't really want conflict!

It's just that I needed to get that off my chest. That thread saddened me a bit - but then I can be oversensitive!

[vict17]

a thread title like that andyou don't want a ruck

[Gobbledigook]

HMC - I can see why but I think you are being a bit sensitive about it. I don't think it's incorrect to say some working mothers feel guilty - of course not all of them do at all, luckily some are very happy with their decision and have no regrets. I know one or two people personally who go to work and have their children in nursery and do feel guilty about it - they tell me so!! And, they do try and justify/balance this guilt by pointing out what they think the children benefit from it (which I'm sure they do, but even they admit they are trying to make themselves feel better and actually believe they'd be better at home, particularly under the age of 2). So, based on what I know of my friends feelings about it, I guess it's not unlikely that some mothers, albeit very childish and petty mothers, might 'have a go' at a SAHM to try and make themselves feel better. It's hideous and I can't understand for the life of me why one mother would want to make another one feel like shit about what they choose in this regard, but not everyone is as intelligent and socially ept as most of the women who post on here

Also re: the aggressiveness - I don't really think that's true but again, just from my own experience of meeting up with the NCT group where some went to nursery and some didn't, it was the children who went to nursery who hit, bit, fought over toys but I think that's just because it's learned behaviour - a first or only child at home with Mum has noone to pick this up from and also has noone to compete with for toys or attention so I guess that makes sense. They catch up when they do start at nursery or when they get siblings! Again, I'm just generalising and I'm sure it's not always the case.

With regard to taking a pot shot back - well, people are just supporting Polina and trying to make her feel better. I don't think anyone of them thinks 'all working mums feel guilty' or whatever but are just hypothesising about why someone might be so cruel to her.

Haven't read the whole thread by the way so just going off your message!

Sorry for waffling!!

[handlemecarefully]

Yes perhaps a rather provocative thread title - I agree!

I haven't had my morning coffee yet...

[PiccadillyCircus]

Have read the thread now and I suppose the problem when someone is starting a thread because they are unhappy with what other people are saying about their choice, means that when other people support the same choice, they are likely to give strong opinions, so that the original poster can feel a but better.

That was a very long confused sentence, but it makes sense to me anyway .

But, speaking personally as someone whose 16 motnh old goes to nursery 7 days a fortnight, reading some of the replies was a bit painful. Fro everything I can see, he loves nursery. I really hope he doesn't become more agressive and I do feel that I have a bond with him.

[handlemecarefully]

Gdg,

Your post on that thread wasn't one of them that got to me.

I agree with majority of what you have said there!

[Gobbledigook]

PC - I wouldn't worry at all (but I'm sure you don't), you've chosen what you need to do for the best in your family and you will know if it's working or not, nobody else. I'm sure you wouldn't put him in nursery if he was suffering or unhappy so as long as he isn't then there's no problem is there?

[Jimjams]

Think you're being oversensitive HMC

TBH everyone's environment is different. There are very few SAHM's 100% of the time, and very few work long hours and put child in nursery whislt climbing the greasy pole (because for starters if you want to climb the greasy pole your hours may dictate that you need a nanny not a nursery).

I for example describe myself as a SAHM but I also run 3 businesses, one of which in particlar is taking up quite a bit of time at the moment, and my 3 year old goes to nursery every morning from April. He started nursery at 2 because he was spending his time with autistic kids at home and was getting some very strange ideas of how to socialise. DS3 will go at 2 as well for the same reason.

I personally think that putting very young babies into nursery every day from 8am-6pm is better avoided if possible, but not everyone is in thesituation that they can avloid it. I don't think that many people do that though. Personally, like most things in life I would say that for the majority of children a mix is best, some time at home, some at nursery, some woith granny if they're around, some at a friends house. You don't have to choose an extreme position.

And yep I suspect this will turn into a bash where everyone justifies their own position. Anyway I'm a SAHM who is currebtly ignoring a xcrying baby- so better dash!

[mummytosteven]

Like I said on the other thread, you talk to an adult, you don't immediately think lovely girl, fascinating girl, must have gone to nursery/not gone to nursery do we! women are far too good at infighting - the right answer to intrusive garbage is WHAT RIGHT DO YOU TO JUDGE ME, not entering into the I AM RIGHT AND YOU ARE WRONG.

[munz]

when we have children I plan on working P/T in the evenings, so DH can spend time with the children, but I will put the little one in nursey for two monrings a week or something for the socialising sid eof things.

[handlemecarefully]

Okay thanks - feeling better now.....

Yes, I guess people were just trying to make Polina feel better hence perhaps the slightly polarised positions

[handlemecarefully]

Well yes - quite irishbird!

[handlemecarefully]

Just off to do my sainsbury to you on line shopping now. Will pop back later for a nervous look at this thread, keeping my fingers crossed that it has all stayed civilised.

[CountessDracula]

I didn't feel happy putting my dd into nursery until she was 2.5 (very recently). I just had this feeling that she needed one on one care until then. No scientific basis for this feeling, it just felt right to me. (btw the one on one was her nanny most of the time not me!)

Everyone has to do what they think is right for their children. It is not anyone else's business.

[wild]

I don't think we do ourselves or others any favours by making comparisons and being judgemental about other people's choices. For SAHM's it must be so irritating to be told the kind of thing that was said to Polina, for working mums it's equally annoying to have the kind of comments that came up in the thread. Why do it? just be happy with your own choice and let others make their decisions. Motherhood is hard enough to get right as it is!

[Bozza]

I really do see your point hmc. I am in the same position as you near enough - work 3 days a week with 2 kids. And yes they do loads of things with me (and sometimes DH) on the days they are not at nursery although I don't think our list is quite as impressive as yours They also do lots of things at nursery some of which I would do with them and some I wouldn't.

I do not believe that children do not socialise until they are 2. Yes they do not co-operatively play until they are 2 but they benefit from playing side by side - was watching 10 month old DD with her 14 month old friend in my friend's livign room and thinking about this (big brother's were occupied upstairs at the time). Obviously this can be at nursery or by some other arrangement. I also have seen no empirical evidence that children who go to nursery are more aggressive than others. Would say that this reflects badly on the nursery if that is the case. DS has a small group of friends and the most aggressive at age 2 was cared for solely by parents/grandparents, the least aggressive solely by his SAHM.

[Bozza]

Agree that everyone has their own decision about whats best for them. Also jimjams point is interesting about how few Mums are truly SAHMs and how few are working all hours at career advancement. I would say that most of us are somewhere in between. Some of us have more childcare choices than others, eg some have healthy, available grandparents, access to do work that can be done when the children are in bed/with the other parent, able to get a job which earns enough money to make nursery/nanny viable etc which affects our decision.

[Sonnet]

I have been a full time working mum, a SAHM and a part time working mum - so my children have had a
variety of hours in a nursery.
Now they are older I can honestly say there is no difference between them or their acheivements.

I think the friends of Pamina whose staements prompted her to post originally are very rude - and I would guess sparked by guilt.

I do think you were a tad oversensitive HMC - but can see why as I felt stirrings of the same - and YES! some of those comments were extremely "irritating".....

[skerriesmum]

Just another point... I read lately in the Irish paper about Norwegian childcare, which is heavily subsidised by government with specially trained staff, excellent class ratios etc. However it is SO good that nearly everyone has their child in it from six months. Mothers are all encouraged to work (and prices are so high that most do anyway.) Scandinavian society encourages independence in children which starts from this nationalised nursery.
A Scottish mum living there said she would have liked to have her child at home longer but it wasn't really an option, everyone just assumed she'd be putting the baby into nursery at six months! And the care he's getting is so good she can't really complain. Even though our choices are sometimes limited I think I'd rather have the option to stay at home if I wanted to! By the way I was a SAHM until ds was nearly two, now I work four days a week.

[Caligula]

Didn't read the thread but frankly I'm sure we're all damaging our children all the time in all sorts of different ways and they'll get over it.

Just like we did!

[iota]

I'm a SAHM who keeps ds2 in day nursery 3 days a week so I can have a life of my own

[marthamoo]

Spot on, Caligula

[SoupDragon]

If I had to be with DS2 24/7 at least one of us would certainly end up damaged in some way.