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'Be good and you'd get a present from santa' Anyone else feel this is wrong wrong wrong!

191 replies

tigermoth · 08/11/2002 11:04

Over the years I admit I've have said to my son, only good children get presents from santa/me etc, but the more I think about it the worse this sentiment seems.

Do I really want my son to grow up believing that poor children are bad and rich children are good?
And the number of presents you get directly corresponds to how many brownie points you tot up? Is christmas just a reward ceremony?

And what sort of man is this santa anyway? If he's this jolly and generous chap, the spirit of christmas, would he really forget naughty children? And what sort of parent am I, that my generosity is conditional? What happened to unconditional love, that thing parents are meant to have?

I'm not saying do away with santa - I just think he's not meant to judge children.

Could you actually resist buying a particular present just because your child hadn't been good enough? I don't think I could do this. I'm all for reward systems, but isn't christmas a time to call a truce?

PS sml if you are reading this, I've a feeling this topic was touched on while back as part of anothe topic - sorry if this is going over old ground for you!

OP posts:
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WideWebWitch · 08/11/2002 11:45

Tigermoth, I have mixed feelings about the whole santa business too. I very nearly didn't go with telling ds about santa and buying into that whole father christmas lie we tell our children. I didn't like the idea of lying about something, since I don't lie about anything else really. But, since I did go for it in the end, I do my "I will have to ring father christmas and tell him you would like that but you know he can't always bring you everything you want" bit.

I don't want a docile, unspirited child either, one that thinks that he has to be good all the time. I agree, santa should understand that children aren't good all the time but maybe, like me, he loves ds ALL the time but just doesn't like his behaviour some of the time?

I don't tell ds that only good children get presents but I do say "remember, I can talk to him about your behaviour" and I do have his number (supposedly) programmed into my mobile (Actually ex dh's no). I use it sparingly though. And I'm DREADING admitting, in years to come, that I lied consistently about this very big thing for years and years. What a wuss!

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monkey · 08/11/2002 11:54

When I read your title tigermoth, at 1st I thought along the lines of fussing too much - sorry - but actually I agree with you.

Maybe it was said to me loads as a kid, as I've found myself saying it a few times recently and I feel uncomfortable & don't like it.

1stly I really believe you shouldn't say anything if you can't or won't carry it out.

I know my ds being a toerag now won't affect my pressie buying in 2 or 3 weeks time.
Most of his pressies come from rellies not me anyway.
I don't want to bribe him with material gain in order to behave.
It's not nice to threaten to take away pressies at a special time of year.
I don't want pressies to become his focal point for Chritmas.
We do, unfortunatelt, know a couple of really naughty kids. He will see that they have loads of Christmas pressies. Will he think that therefore they're not naughty after all?
Or will he know I was just lying?

Btw in some European countries, santa has a dark counterpart who's robe is brown & he carries a big bunch of sticks. He's what the naughty kids get, so it's clearly an idea that's part & parcel with Christmas, not just frazzled british mum's desperate threats.

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lou33 · 08/11/2002 14:37

My kids think I give a nightly telephone report to Santa on their behaviour, and then he decides how many presents they get for being good all year! They always have plenty to stop them thinking they are not "good enough" though, including some things they have been pleading for in the preceding months.

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Tortington · 08/11/2002 14:58

i think its easier to tell them that santa ran off with the tooth fairy so xmas is cancelled this year!

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SoupDragon · 08/11/2002 14:59

I used the "Santa Card" for the first time today acually. I just said "You do realise Santa's watching you don't you?" and said that Santa doesn't like naughty children. I didn't go as far as to say that naughty children didn't get any presents though. At least I've not gone that far yet...

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janh · 08/11/2002 15:02

As far as the lying business is concerned, I always felt a bit bad about that too, but none of my children has ever reproached me with it once they found out!

I think when it's the kind of lying that benefits them they don't hold it against you. I also think that, at the age when we say these things, they don't have enough of a grasp on all the little ins and outs of it all to put it together logically the way we do. They actually do still believe in magic and that seems to cover the things we worry about - which is lucky!

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SoupDragon · 08/11/2002 15:13

I don't see Father Christmas as a lie. Yes, I know it's not true, but it does make Christmas much more magical for children.

Lies hurt people, perpetuating the FC myth is simply fun. I bet 99% of you thoroughly enjoy the whole farce of leaving out cookies & your favourite drink, a carrot for Rudolph and seeing your childs face when they wake up in the morning to see a full sack. I was always filled with wonder that he'd managed to fill mine up without waking me up. (my parents were less thrilled since, with 3 siblings sharing a room for Christmas, we never went to sleep before 2am!)

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Tinker · 08/11/2002 15:16

I think that they work out for themselves quite early on that there is no such thing but they perpetuate the myth for their own enjoyment. My daughter commented last year that the wrapping paper was the same as the stuff she had seen me buy.

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lou33 · 08/11/2002 15:36

Ah tinker mine said that , but I explained that Santa was too busy making presents to get the paper so that was our job!

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susanmt · 08/11/2002 16:58

I find the whole santa thing weird - with Christmas, we tell them two stories about it, santa and the nativity, and then we try to tell them later one is true and one isn't - what are they supposed to think? Luckily my children are too small to do much more than screech at santa at playgroup parties, but I am interested i listening to hear what you lot do as I will be facing it if not this year, then next ...
My Dad never told us santa didn't exist - he just says 'if you dont believe in santa, don't hang up your stocking ....'

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ScummyMummy · 08/11/2002 17:04

LOL, Custardo!

I agree with you, T'moth. Wish my partner did... Mind you they seem to behave better for him at the moment so perhaps idle threats are the way to go.

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pob · 08/11/2002 17:17

Have been avoiding thinking of this, but dd1 will be 2.5 this year, so I guess we've got to sort out what to say soon. Definately agree with Tigermoth re. not associating being bad with no/less presents - totally unfair and definately against 'spirit' of christmas. Our biggest dilema is french/english customs - we alternate families every year, and in france they put shoes in front of the chimney and all the presents under the tree are from santa, in the uk it's stockings from santa, pressies under the tree from family etc. Don't think the 'white lie' will stand more than a few christmasses...what does everyone else do?

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Tinker · 08/11/2002 19:20

What I do find hard to explain is when my daughter takes a present in to school to be given to some poorer kids. Can't quite work out how to explain that 'No, they're not not getting presents because they've been naughty but because no-one else got them one/Santa forgot?'

I find 'suggesting' that I ring her head mistress is more effective than Father Christmas when she's playing up - and she's all year round as well

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SoupDragon · 08/11/2002 19:25

Tinker, we always had 2 sorts of present when I was little - Santa presents and presents from the family. So, your DD would be providing a "family present" for a child whose family can't afford them.

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Tinker · 08/11/2002 19:35

Oh good thinking SoupDragon

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KMG · 08/11/2002 19:36

Tigermoth, yes, yes, it's wrong! I haven't ever threatened no Christmas presents for bad behaviour. (If I had it would be a very cheap Christmas after the year we've had ...) The boys do get stockings and small presents from Santa, main ones from us, but they're not negotiable, not dependant on good behaviour. I don't remember my parents ever saying this to me, though I think they did at school, but I knew it wasn't true!

Monkey - I regularly "bribe my children with material gain in order to behave" ... sometimes works, sometimes doesn't. Often the biggest impact is when they don't hit their target (this week it was pleasant mornings before school), and therefore don't get the holy grail (Harry Potter chocolate frogs at the moment).

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zebra · 08/11/2002 21:20

Susanmt: I'm with you; the Santa thing is weird. I just can't do it -- I feel silly telling a pack of lies.

What I intend to tell them is that ... "there use to be a very nice man named Saint Nicholas who gave presents to all the children. People thought that was so nice that they invented an imaginary person with almost the same name, and now everybody pretends that he is still bringing presents to the little children every year."

So I'll tell them he's imaginary, but we all pretend to believe in him.

What you guys think? Bad or stupid or even good idea? I just can't do the Santa Thing otherwise.

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Willow2 · 08/11/2002 21:29

don't wish to sound like I'm having a go, but are those of you who are considering not doing Santa unable to recall the excitement of thinking that some magical wonderful man would bring you presents if you were good (and he always did)? Or was Santa not done for you? I'm not criticising anyone's decision not to do something - but I loved the whole idea of Father Christmas and fully intend to do the same for ds.

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zebra · 08/11/2002 21:39

I think as a kid I was just excited about prezzies. If they come from a stranger presumably it's more of a "mystery" what you'll get. Which makes it a little more exciting. Otherwise, prezzies are prezzies are fun!

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Khara · 08/11/2002 21:42

What do you mean the Father Christmas lie? Of course there's a Santa Claus! And I've still never admitted any different to my parents. I was still getting a stocking after I was married if we spent Christmas with them (dh had to have one too!)

What's wrong with a bit of Christmas magic? I can still remember the thrill of discovering that the mince pie and glass of sherry had disappeared in the night. It's almost as exciting doing it over again with my two ds.

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susanmt · 08/11/2002 22:27

I'm going to do santa - I was just commenting that from my (Christian) pov it is a bit weird to tell them what seems like two similarly believable tales as a wee kid then tall them later that ONE of them isnt true. But we will still do santa, I can still remember my Dad shouting 'He's been! He's been!' on Christmas morning and the excruciating excitement of it all - and that was just 2 years ago when we we nt to them for Christmas! I LOVE CHristmas, just try to make it as Christian as possible!

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Clarinet60 · 08/11/2002 22:50

I'm with Willow2 and others. It was one of the most magical things in my childhood and I'd love to recreate it. I don't see it as a lie. I'm still not entirely convinced that he doesn't exist ......... And, although in many cases I'm heavily into bribery and corruption (I have a vast stash of smarties for various purposes) I never tell him he won't get a present if he's naughty.

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anais · 08/11/2002 23:14

I don't do Father Christmas. I vividly remember my best friend telling me he didn't exist (aged 7? I think?) racing in and demanding that my Mum told her she was wrong...with inevitable consequences. I felt so small, and betrayed that my parents had lied to me. It all sounds very childish, but they were strong emotions at the time. I always knew I wouldn't do it with my kids. I don't think they're missing out, I think it's fundamentally wrong to lie to children. We then expect them to differentiate between this kind of lie, and any other. For the record I tell bible stories as fiction too.

As far as "If you don't behave you won't get any presents" akin to "you wait until your father gets home" and "if you don't do what I say I'll get a policeman to take you away" (and yes, I've heard both these things said to children). Awful, awful, awful, it breaks my heart.

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thumper · 08/11/2002 23:49

What do you at Christmas then Anais? Do you just give them pressies from you or do you ignore the whole thing?

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SueDonim · 09/11/2002 06:05

Santa just brings one present for each person to our house and the rest are from us and other family/friends. I don't think a bit of magic goes amiss in childhood. None of mine has been traumatised by discovering the truth, which has been by the time they are about 5 or 6. It's always been a slow dawning on them, not someone telling them. Our 6yr old is pretty suspicious this year, (due to our travellings and how-will-Santa-know-where-I-am?) but still wants to perpetuate the excitement, just like Tinker's dd.

I wouldn't use Santa as a threat or punishment unless you're going to go through with it. Why spoil a lovely time of year?

Dd's heavily into fairies at the moment but I don't tell her they don't exist - I can't because every time you say that, a fairy dies, right?

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