Gender Stereotypes

[SueBaroo]

I was wondering if anyone goes out of their way to negate gender stereotyping, or if you went with the more traditional ways of doing things?

[TheArmadillo]

I go with whatever ds wants to do, personally.

If he wants to play with a doll, he can. If he wants to play with cars, he can.

I don't have a policy.

[QueenofBleach]

A friends liite boy came round the other day as he was missing playing with the dolls and bugies at his nursery

[LoveAngel]

Same as Armadillo. My son has dolls and a buggy and enjoys having tea parties for his teddies, but he also loves his bike, is obssessed with emergency service vehicles (!) and likes digging up worms in the back garden. Whatever floats his boat, I say!

[sfxmum]

i go with what dd wants within reason (
no barbie no bratz)

she is a huge Thomas the tank engine fan and trains in general.

was amused by kindly woman who told me if that is the case 'mothercare do a nice Thomas hat in pink'

still she walks around in wellies fairy wings and blue thomas hat

[SueBaroo]

OK. I've been thinking about it because my SIL is very pro-active in getting her daughters things she think will make sure they're not 'stereotyped'. So she actively encourages cars, tools, etc. and it's all very deliberate.

We just sort of go with the flow, really, and my eldest is very girlie and my other girls are quite tomboyish.

[Kathyis6incheshigh]

I actively get non-stereotypical things - because I know that everyone else will get the stereotypical stuff, and I want them to have a range to choose from.

I agree the right thing is, as other people have said, to go with what they want. But there are many parents who say they have done that when actually their child has never had anything but the toys that are seen as typical of their gender, especially if they don't have opposite sex siblings. Kind of bugs me that there are a lot of people in denial about how much their children have been stereotyped (not accusing anyone on this thread of that btw - I am thinking of people I know in RL).

[SueBaroo]

See that's what got me thinking about it - because I know we have done trad. girlie things with our girls, and one's all frilly and the others aren't at all.

SIL's girls never touch anything that isn't pink and they squeal if they get dirt on them. It's almost like she's been so deliberate she's put them off.

shrugs shoulders Hey ho, there we go.

[Tranquila]

i only see the prob;em when parents and other adults actively discourage behaviors or interests in a child which are not seen to be of the 'correct' gender.

i believe to do that is to do a terrible disservice to the child in question.

go with the flow a good motto imo. listen to each individual child, ditto.

[LoveAngel]

I agree with Kathy about people not always realising how powerful the effect of gender stereotyping can be on young children. I notice the way people speak to my DS and the characteristics they pick up on in him: 'You're such a strong boy', 'You're such a fast runner', 'Aren't you clever?', 'Come on now, don't cry!' etc - as opposed to the female friends of children, who get a lot of 'Aren't you gorgeous?', 'That's a lovely dress you're wearing!', 'Ah, is that dolly your baby?', 'Ah, did you fall over? Come here and let me kiss it better' etc etc. Its often quite blatant, and although well meaning, you can just see how this sort of thing hugely influences little ones. I guess what I'm saying is, it goes way beyond the sorts of toys you buy for your children. I actively try to accept my son as he is rather than force him into 'acting like a boy' - but its not always easy to combat all the expectations other people have of your child, unfortunately.

[reallyreallyGoodlooking]

agree with LovaAngel 100% there

[sfxmum]

loveangel that has always been a concern of mine should I ever have a boy.

when dd falls she is not made a fuss of and as taken to dusting herself off saying 'I am a big tough girl'
you are right there are so many well embedded and are barely noticeable so common they are but the conditioning starts early.

nature v nurture is fascinating

[SueBaroo]

true sfxmum. I know we're definitely doing it differently now we have a boy.

[TheArmadillo]

The thing that annoys me, and I have one ds, is things like at family events when some (more distant) relatives refuse to kiss/cuddle him goodbye because he's a boy, yet will do it to the girls. Ds gets a handshake, which confuses him. This started before he was 1yo.

It really gets to me. These men have their own sons. I'm pleased dp, and grandparents don't seem to have this problem as it gets on my nerves.

It is true though, gender stereotypes are more than what toys they are given to play with.

I have always gone for 'boys' clothes for ds, never looked at the girls. I would be uncomfortable putting him in a pink dress for example.

When he gets round to choosing his own clothes then that's up to him, but I would never consciously dress him up in a 'girl's' outfit.

[WanderingTrolley]

I worked as a nanny for a family who were keen to break down gender stereotypes, despite their daughter having a more traditional outlook. One Christmas they bought her a train set - she cried.

Studies have been done whereby a baby is dressed in blue and handed around a group of people, then the same baby is handed around dressed in pink.

There is often a marked difference in how the baby is treated. More physical play for the blue baby, more gentle cuddling for the pink one.

I especially like the sound of sfxmum's dd with the wellies and wings

[Skimty]

Yes, Armadillo. BIL refused to kiss 10mo DS goodbye because 'it's a bit gay'

However, isn't it almost impossible to shake off our own social conditioning when we play with children? I'm sure I read that people play differently with babies dressed in blue and pink without even being aware of it.

It makes me laugh though when you tell people you're not finding out the sex of the baby and they get into a panic about the colour of the nursery. DH did a jungle mural on ours which I though was pretty gender neutral until at least two peopl said 'But what if you have a girl!'

[Skimty]

Sorry wandering - should have read your post more carefully

[TheArmadillo]

There was a child of our time programme when the kids were young. They dressed them up in clothes of hte opposite gender to see how the adults (who didn't know them) would play with them and what toys they would pick.

It was interesting. THe most interesting part was though how hard some of the parents found it to dress their child in clothes of the opposite gender. Especially the dads, irrelevant of the gender of the child.

[Skimty]

I do think it's very difficult to change how we feel about say dressing a boy in pink because we're so socially indoctrinated that often if we do it, it's not a neutral act in itself but pushing against stereotypes.

I don't think it matter so much with the pink/blue thing. I think the problems comes when you start saying things like 'wow, he's reading a lot for a boy' and associating certain behaviours with a differnt sex.

FWIW I used to dress my little brother up as a 'pretty princess'. He's now a massive goth and took two hours this morning to get ready to leave the house!

[TheArmadillo]

lol at your brother

I agree with what you are saying about the clothes thing.
O
ur gender is a part of who we are, and when you present your child to the world (at an age when it is often difficult to distinguish boys from girls) you want people to recognise them as a new person, not a baby and gender is part of that.

I doubt dressing them in the 'correct' colours will have any bearing on what they wear in the future, and I agree that other behaviours have a much bigger effect.

[stripeybumpsmum]

Very interesting.

My brother and I could not be more different if we tried. In his house, his DS is allowed guns but absolutely banned from teddies/dolls etc - DB even had a go at our mum because she bought her DGS a spiderman 'wallet' which she called a purse - from DB reaction, you might assume he thinks calling it a purse rather than a wallet is making child gay. What?????

My DS is only 19mo so not actively demanding toys. Quite happy - encourage him - to play with teddies, pretend cleaning things, dolly in pushchair etc but quite happy to let him take the lead. He's got the usual gender-free toys as well. NOT happy to have guns etc - any presents like that may meet a tragic end in the recycling.

However, having said I am happy to let DS do what he wants, I must confess I am dreading having a girl in the future who wants to be really girly. Am 7m pg now - don't know sex - but loathe most of the clothes for girls. Little boys look like they are dressed as little men, whilst little girls are expected to look like fairies and princesses. Would much rather have a tomboy! Anyone recommend good shops for girls clothes that are not THAT colour?

[SueBaroo]

I'm really loving the change after three girls. Absolutely relishing being able to have some different sorts of clothes.

Is it popular then, to shun stereotyped gender ideas? Only we don't. Are we odd?

[sfxmum]

it is interesting how people bungle their own stereotypes insecurities and prejudices onto their own children and worst onto others.

dd has a train set because she loves trains, she was given a car and she hates it, she likes dolls but does not 'nurture' them, not yet anyway.

other peoples reactions are harder to control, from expected behaviours to forms of address, it is all far too ingrained. there are studies about how teacher react to male / female, quite interesting how they guide them, without thinking into stereotypes. this does not apply to every teacher of course

[Acinonyx]

I confess that we are not as gender neutral as I really thought and planned we would be before dd was born. I have gone to the dark side wrt the clothing thing (although I'm not keen on That Colour and try to avoid it). Dd is now 2 and becoming very interested in her wardrobe and likes to run to 'show daddy' her outfit (oh what have I done!).

For her 2nd bday I astonished myself by buying her a baby doll with a change of clothes and shoes. I just knew that was the kind of thing she likes - it looks like she's going to be a child that wants to play with dolls and dress them. Aren't there any 'nice' non-barbie non-baby dolls out there that you can get clothes for? I just hate barbie.

I have bought trains and cars. They are in a box and brought out when other toddlers are over. She just isn't interested.

So I am just going with the flow now and seeing what she seems to like. Jill

[aloha]

But what's wrong with playing with a doll and wearing pink? Do we think they are intrinsically bad because they are associated with femaleness? Are we not at risk of falling into the misogynist trap of thinking that anything that is associated with girls/women is automatically bad and inferior to anything associated with boys/men?
There is enough stupid shame around boys playing with dolls and buggies (as though men never have children or push prams ) why extend that sense of shame to our daughters?
There is nothing 'better' about a girl in combats playing with a trainset compared to a girl in a pink dress playing with a doll.

[sfxmum]

I think the 'bad' was not allowing them to play with what they choose to play because someone feels 'it's wrong'

most kids like doing both and often just playing with whatever the next kid is playing with