mealtimes and puddings when ONE child is not eating?

[StarryStarryNight]

I am at loss what to do regards to mealtimes now. I have a 5 year old who used to be a very picky eater, and would be rewarded with pudding if he ate reasonably well. I now also have a 2 year old who has willpower like a stone, and will simply refuse to eat to get pudding. So if he does not eat his dinner he does not get pudding. But how do I deal with my 5 year old who has eaten well and askes for it? I dont think it is fair if I withold pudding from him just because his brother has not eaten?

So what I get ususally at mealtimes now is a screaming toddler who has not eaten dinner and is denied pudding and can see his brother eating pudding with a smug look on his face, or a screaming 5 year old who is denied the pudding because his brother has not eaten, or a 2 year old who has not eaten dinner, but is happy as larry because he has had pudding instead. Any suggestions, or experiences with similar?

[ComeOVeneer]

I have a 5year old dd who eats well and a 2 year old ds who eats badly. DD gets pudding (she is very good and eats it discreetly in the kitchen at the brakfast bar without lording it oveer her brother). TBH he doesn't tend to be botherd.

[pagwatch]

You can't deny the child that HAS eaten dinner a pudding - you haven't actually done that have you?
Personally I have never used this tactic as it makes regular food the 'dreadful experince' you have to go through to get the 'fabulous treat' of the sugar laden pudding.
But no problems with anyone using whatever works as long as they don't then change the rules - which is what you seem to be doing.

My friend visits and she uses that on her child. maybe I am cruel but I have no problem with 4 out of 5 kids getting the pudd they have earnt and the other one not getting anything if THOSE ARE THE RULES.

ooops sorry to shout but I am feeling very sorry for your 5 year old who is doing what you ask and then you punish him anyway

[nellie75]

Hi, i have a similar situation with my eldest two dc, the eldest one always eats dinner and will want a pudding where as there are alot of times when my ds won't eat dinner but still wants pudding, i always allow the eldest pudding as i feel it is not her fault if ds won't eat and i never give in and give ds pudding if he hasn't eaten explaining alot of the time that if he wants pudding he knows he has to eat dinner, it usually works and if it gets too bad dd will eat discretly will i entertain ds elsewhere

[StarryStarryNight]

Pagwotch, no, I have never denied my 5 year old his pudding.

I have sometimes said to him he will get it in a minute when brother is playing and cant see him, but that is difficult too, because my 5 year old will happily start asking for pudding when we are all sitting eating, even before finnishing, and DS2 will immediately stop eating and start demanding pudding.

What I illustrated below was the scenarios envisaged, sorry for not making that clear. It was easy to reward with pudding when dinner was eaten when there was only ONE child. Now there is two, one eats well (but didnt always) and one doesnt.

What usually happens is that we eat dinner, 5 year old gets his pudding regardless of what his brother eats, but on his own merits.
DS2 either eats or he doesnt, if he doesnt, we have a huge fight over pudding because he sees his brother having it.

I suspect that DS2 is holding out for pudding, he is eating nothing so that he can fill up on pudding. They were doing that in the nursery, but I put a stop to that saying that unless it was fruit or yoghurt he were to not have any pudding if he did not eat his dinner. The problem there would be that he would NOT eat anything at all the whole day, and I felt really bad going to work and have my child at nursery without eating any food the whole day.


I am really at my wits end about this, because mealtime has turned into a nightmare. Althoug 5 year old eats, he starts begging for pudding before DS2 has finnished, thus ruining any chances of DS2 completing his meal.

I would like to threaten 5 year old with no pudding if he asks for pudding before everybody has finnished eating. Even if I try quieten him and tell him NOT to mention pudding, he still does. In fact it seems as he delights in the scenario of HIM getting pudding and his brother not, so hurries up to eat and start talking about pudding while DS2 is still in the tasting stages of his dinner.

Maybe I should just stop all pudding until further notice.

Pudding is usually vanilla ice cream with strawberries, or rasberries, or melon, a cupcake occasionally.

[StarryStarryNight]

Not haveing a good day here. After refusing to eat, he was so angry that DS1 got his pudding and not him that he THREW ALL the food and not just his own on the floor. So now there is no more dinner left, and guess who has had to mop it all up and bin it? And guess who has lost her temper and locked DS2 up in the bedroom?

[cornsilk]

Can 5 year old go into a different room for his pudding?

[StarryStarryNight]

part of the problem is that he is asking for his pudding while DS2 is still eating, and DS2 stops eating when he hears about desserts. So then it is already ruined.

[stressteddy]

If your child does as you ask - then give him pud.
If your other one doesn't - then don't

Your dc won't starve himself - he will eat when he needs to
Love to you - it's hard isn't it? Especially when they are strong willed

[Seona1973]

I would stop offering pudding and reward the good eating with something else instead which is totally removed from dinner time

[snowwonder]

could one that has eaten dinner have the pudding and offer the one who hasnt eaten there dinner just plain fruit?

[StarryStarryNight]

I have tried offering fruit instead, but he throws that on the floor.

[juuule]

Is it really worth the fight? Is it really worth turning food into such a big issue?
How big are the 2yo portions? Why not give small/tiny portions to the 2yo for the time being and then let them both have their pudding. I've given pudding first before now and then the children have eaten their non-pudding bit afterwards. It's all food.

[StarryStarryNight]

Juuule, no it is not worth the fight. That is why I am asking for advise, because I recognise I am not handling this well.

[Seona1973]

what about stopping pudding and giving a light snack before bed instead. That way 'pudding' is far removed from dinner time and may cause less of a fight

[juuule]

Then if it was me, I would go and get the 2yo and have a cuddle with both children. Next mealtime take a deep breath and try to be more relaxed about the order the food is eaten in by the 2yo. Explain to the 5yo why 2yo is being given a bit of leeway due to age. See if something like that works? I also think Seona's idea is a good one - take the pudding out of the mealtime equation.

[snowwonder]

might be worth a try with small portions,

my dd was getting very upset going to nursery earlier this year and it turned out it was bescause of lunch time and the huge portions, and this was making her all tense etc,

i then had to put in writing?????? for them to give dd much smaller portions, and now she is so much happier, and eats it all,
she is not a big eater in fact i am not sure how she will survive when she satrts school in sept. she only seems to get by on meals form nursery...


i think as well as hard as it is try not to make such an issue of it, offer the food if not eaten clear away, not sure what to do about the food on the floor again maybe as hard as it is clear up and not fuss about it...

i do feel for you i find mealtimes a trauma, not with dd age 9 but with dd age nearly 4

[NannyL]

I have a 4.5 year old and a 23 month old....

at lunch time i give the little one his pudding as soon as he has finished (so that eh can go to bed straight after) and 4 year old tends to eat much slower and gets his if he eats enough (95% of the time he has enough to get pudding)
If the little one is being awkward then he just goes straight to ebd without pudding.

At tea time (when 4 year old often eats faster) he has to wait for pudding.

Most of the time 23 month old eats enough and will get pudding as well.

Sometimes he is having a huge fuss.... so i just calmly state that W. has eaten his tea nicely and will be having something else. If he wants something else he needs to eat nicely too.

Sometimes he does.... so he gets pudding, sometimes he doesnt and yes he has to sit there while big brother has his. Either

a) he makes a huge fuss and wants it... in which case he is told he cant have it until he has eaten, so he either makes more fuss and gets down and has nothing until next meal, or cams down and eats

b) KNOWING that he wont get any (because i have never ever given in ) he then actually starts eating nicely.

Incidently pudding is not generally something sugary and bad...

The 1st thing they have to choose is something from the fruit table....

IF they eat fruit nicely they generally only get organic yogurt, ocassionaly fruit jelly, custard or if hot a home made fruit juice ice lolly in the garden!

(as little one is getting older (ie he is now nearly 2) its getting much easier as he understands that unless he eats enough 1st course he really WONT have anything else at all!)

Also im a great believer in 'hungry chidlren eat' and that if they dont want to eat their food they cant actually be that hungry, so i dont feel bad about getting them down... and then they have NOTHING at all (except water to drink) until next meal.

[StarryStarryNight]

Stressteddy,
I am not so sure he wont starve himself. He has been known to go to nursery in the morning, refuse snack and snack time, refuse his lunch, not be given pudding after if he doesnt eat, and not eat at tea time, and when I pick him up at 5 (he has a long day once a week) he has not eaten since breakfast at 8. Then he has a sandwich before bed. I am sure that a bowl of cereals and a sandwich in a whole day is too little for a two year old.

Seona,
I think I have to take pudding out of the equation all together, or turn pudding into just fruit and nothing else.

Juule,
I have tried to let him have a small pudding before dinner, and that does not work either, as he still has no dinner.

Snowwonder,
I think I should try smaller portions, too. I did that yesterday, and he was so pleased to be asking for more, again, and again. Sadly what he had was just plain pasta penne, as he refused the portion I made with lamb bolognese sauce.

[yaddayah]

With the 5 year old I would explain very clearly that he is teasing his sibling and as that is not nice he won't have pudding regardless of eating up his dinner.

Similar thing happened with my two (nightmare!) and the whole of dinnertime seemed like a frenzy of anticipation waiting for who had eaten what and who was getting a reward, in the end it wasn't about the food, it was about the two of them getting one over on the other and being "mummys" favorite.

Would also stop puddings for a while ..I know its a shame for the elder child .. does he have a later bedtime ?(perhaps a hot chocolate and cookie as a special nightime treat)

Good luck and hope that was vaguely helpfull !

[juuule]

For those of you who say a child won't starve itself, how long would you leave a child without any food apart from the food you are insisting s/he eats?

[StarryStarryNight]

I end up giving my DS2 a wholemeal sandwich (with either jam or nutella as this is the only he accepts) instead shortly after dinner as I am so scared he shall not have enough, or turn out with iron deficient aenemia like his older brother who also was an extremely fussy eater.

God, I am going to ruin my child, or set him up for some very bad eating habits. I just dont know what to do to ensure he gets enough good nutrition. He used to eat so well! Vegetables, meat, fish, and no he will eat nothing but sandwich, and barely that!

[NannyL]

juule...

at 18months my little stubborn man ate nothing at all for 23.5 hours

dont feel bad...

you give them yummy food...
If they are hungry they WILL eat it, if not they wont but just might be hungry enough to eat something the next meal

if not even more likely they may be hungry
enough the following meal

hungry chidlren will not starve themselves when offered delicouse nutritouse food regualarly..... especially when they think that you couldnt care less if they eat or not

[StarryStarryNight]

well, I offer a lot of nutritious and yummy food, most of wich delights everybody else but my 2 year old, who simply wont eat. And he WILL starve himself, and I am too busy to prepare meal after meal for him hoping some will meet with his approval. So sandwich it is, if he doesnt eat what he is offered first. But not for a while after the meal he refused.

[juuule]

Don't panic Starry. Wholemeal sandwich with jam or nutella doesn't sound bad to me. Some of mine have been fussy eaters. Eg. Eldest ds ate everything put in front of him up to about 2.5y -3y. Then he didn't like the taste of things, then he didn't like the look of things. Very picky from then on. However, around the age of 14 he began to fancy bits of different foods. Still wouldn't let you put it out for him for a meal. At about 15 he had quite a wide ranging diet. Today he is a healthy 21 yo in his 2nd year at uni.
I would have been worried if it hadn't been for the fact that my sister was a picky eater. In fact, I think she lived off custard for about 2 years as a toddler. She was in her late teens before she had what would be considered a good diet. She doesn't appear to have any ill effects from her earlier diet.
I think if you can try to include what you can (as you are doing - wholemeal bread, yoghurts,) then you will cover most of your child's nutritional needs. If in doubt, maybe give vitamin supplements.
I've found that young children's appetite size varies from time to time. Your ds2 might not need much at the moment and then when he has a growth spurt his appetite might greatly increase along with the range of foods he's willing to eat. Be prepared
Most of all try not to stress too much about it. Your children may pick up on that and it could make things worse.

[juuule]

Does your ds like cereal? A bowl of cereal with milk does no harm for a meal now and again.