dd aged 4 and a bit being rather tricky all of a sudden help!

[CountessDracula]

She has suddenly started ignoring the counting to 3 (which always always worked before) and is no longer able to be coerced into doing stuff by me getting cross, instead she just laughs at me

She has started getting up from the table, shouting at us, asking for stuff rudely eg YOGHURT! after supper.

Not quite sure where to start with this as it has all happened at once, dh and I trying to be consistent - she has been on the naughty step twice int he past 2 days.

She has been a bit ill but this is beyond usual ill behaviour.

What tricks do you have up your sleeves for this sort of age?

[brimfull]

my ds has started to ignore me.I have resorted to the "do you realy want mummy to start shouting?"
Hate the sound of my own voice at times.
I don't have any answers but will watch this thread with hope.

[CountessDracula]

thanks sally

We have done just this tonight over dinner!

We think it may be partly because i have been ill a lot lately and she is playing me up because of that. Also maybe because she is now top dog at nursery (she is 4 sept baby so is the oldest now that the last lot moved up to school). She is perfectly behaved at nursery!

Hadn't thought of taking away toys (she is so attached to her soft toys I can't imagine doing it and doesnt care much about others)

May try sending to bedroom, good idea.

I am never sure what level of threat is appropriate tbh. She is not particularly sensitive in some ways so I think it has to be fairly dire to make an impact. But sometimes I think god how awful to threaten a 4 yo!

[CountessDracula]

god I sound wet

i am not I assure you. However my Dad used to shout a lot so I hate shouting. I did today though. I hate doing it it upsets me far more than it does her

[CountessDracula]

ggirl I do threaten to shout

water off a duck's back atm though

[CountessDracula]

I must go to bed to steel myself for tomorrow's onslaught

Hope tha tthere are lots of miraculous revelations on this thread by morning

[porpoise]

Oh yes, the laughing at you
Sounds like you're handling it right, though. You just have to be boringly consistent.
It is just a phase, honest

[Hattie05]

Hi my dd is approaching four and also i'm seeing a shift in her 'cockiness' coming through. She started calling people silly names like " poo poo" she argues/shouts back when i try and tell her not to do something and is basically a bit of a madam.

I'm assuming the change in behaviour is part of normal development - her stepping up into next 'world' of childhood!

I'm dealing with it by talking to her about her horrible behaviour when she is in a good mood, we discuss how it makes me happy when she is being good etc etc I won't tolerate any of the bad behaviour and i send her upstairs when she does anything she knows she's not supposed to. I tell her to come back down once she is calm - and of course she comes back immediately but always making an extra special effort to behave.

I am sure this is working as i see her trying really hard to behave and she asks me if i'm happy that she's being good etc etc. Now its only when she's overtired that i see the really bad stuff going on!

[all4girlz]

when my dd3 shouts for yoghurt or a drink etc me or dh say I am sorry but I cant hear you when you shout talk properly or not atall, then we ignore her until she says it nice.
I know its sounds a bit daft but it works most of the time --even when she has to say sorry we ask her to say it properly then we praise her.

naughty steps do not work anymore as dd3 and dd2 either both go (cos I love her / need my sister) so defeat the object gosh they are hard work.

[porpoise]

I always find, 'Sorry I can't hear you when you shout. Tell me again nicely' a good phrase to fall back on.
Illogical but it works...

[CountessDracula]

Oh yes we don't respond to any requests made in this manner

I just find it very annoying indeed

[NannyL]

If any child shouted YOGURT at me they would certainly NOT be getting a yogurt or anything else for that matter.

they would be down from the table and waiting until the next meal

they would also be apoligising for their rude behaviour.... and if it continued they would be on the step until they coulkd apologise and be nice again!

[CountessDracula]

well that is what we did!

No yoghurt, on naughty step until she apologised

[NotQuiteCockney]

Hmm, given shouting doesn't seem to be working very well, I'd drop it. Shouting just makes them shout at you more, in the long run.

I'd respond calmly, explain the consequences of their actions, and then follow through.

I do think some cheekiness and rebellion is a developmental thing and perfectly normal. Doesn't mean you have to put up with it, though.

[CountessDracula]

she is on it again now for refusing to stop hitting me

[NotQuiteCockney]

Hmm, I certainly end up in some bad patterns with DS1, and get (understandably) very frustrated with him, and stop doing fun things with him, and things just get worse and worse.

If you can take some time out, go do something fun, just the two of you, it might break the cycle? It sounds like she's just after attention, iyswim.

[moondog]

I remove myself from the children CD,telling them that I don't want to be with a naughty person who does x/y/z.

That seems to work rather well.

[Gingerbear]

Oh god, CD, I sympathise completely. Dd is also a shouty stroppy 4 yr old. Sometimes she behaves like a petulant teenager.
Pasta jar worked for a while until she said, mid-tantrum 'Mummy, you can just throw all the pasta away, because, I don't care!'
I think the key is a boringly consistent punishment (naughty step for example) and a refusal to let her win or get her own way. I too have shouted and we have both ended up in tears about it, followed by hugs, kisses and 'I am sorry', but it is not good. DH has far more patience and even temper than I do with her (but he doesn't have her pushing buttons all weekend either)

[Gingerbear]

Totally agree with Moondog's tactic too - ignoring bad behaviour and being 'busy' doing something else when ignoring her works a treat.

[CountessDracula]

We are taking her to Arsenal v Liverpool this afternoon so hopefully that will cheer her up
TBH she is being much better today

We are doing her scrapbook atm and she has chilled out again