Lost control of bedtimes

[Snowie2]

I need some serious advice have tried everything. I have 2 children 7 & 5 and I absolutely dread bedtime. It starts at 7pm with the 2 of them going up to brush teeth etc usually under my supervision sometimes not, then story time in each bedroom usually with the other pulling some sort of antic while the story is being read. I can control this by threatening to stop the story and it generally goes ok. I find though they don't really listen. Then cuddles etc & lights off (doors open and landing light on). Then I go down to DH (yes he does bedtime sometimes but usually avoids it & I don't blame him) and the antics start - running in and out of each others' rooms, sometimes playing mostly messing all sorts of antics going on. As I work fulltime I'm usually tired enough to go to bed myself between 8-9 in the hope of some me time (and web surfing/reading) but they will just run in and out of the room encouraged by the other. I've tried reward charts & they just don't care so it's a joke. Eg they're only starting to settle now & it's 10.12pm. Every night the same thing 3 hours of bedtime antics me shouting up the stairs "go to bed !! Get into bed !! Get out of her room ! Get out of his room !" Etc I'd say the neighbours think we're nuts. Either we have to run up and down the stairs 10 times or just shout up to them. The odd time DH will let a roar which makes them bawl crying & more dramas ensue. I've tried closing their doors but they act like I'm torturing them & they've no night lights only main light. I would need to open the doors when the go asleep anyway. Tried keeping them up later but only prolongs the agony to midnight. Ends up we have zero evening & I have zero free time or energy to do anything other then pray they ei go asleep before me. It's effecting everything. On top of the my 7yo DS is becoming quite brattish with lots of I hate you's & sometimes bad language. Our reaction is usually to shout, threaten to take away his electronics etc for a period of time which we do but doesn't make much difference. DS & DD fight 50% of the time sometimes very physical each as bad as the other tho DS stronger. As I work FT it's too hard to impose consistent discipline but am genuinely overwhelmed as is DH which is evident on his constant bad form & tiredness. As the 2 of them are close in age they're very involved in everything the other does so it complicates punishments etc also when I try to give one 1-1 time (and tbh DD hogs most of that) the other creates havoc to divert attention. If i try to do something with eg DS DD will not go and do something on her own, she wont go to DH & she'll make a huge drama that we want her away from DS. The result is neither get enough quality attention though I suspect DD does. I've tried being calm speaking calmly but it's not getting any results they just get more and more hyper and bold. If I could crack bedtime like when they were a bit younger at least there was an end to the day. I also feel totally overwhelmed when I get home from work and both want my exhausted attention when all I want is 5 seconds to sit down & shake off the day.

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

Mine are 17 months apart and share a room. The eldest is about to turn 7. So fairly similar.

If I stagger bedtime and settle the youngest first and then take eldest to bed later it works so much better tbh. I'm a lone parent and I work. Getting them asleep can be so stressful as they muck about or squabble otherwise. But for my sanity I need my evening time to rest.

The alternative if I put them to bed together is I have to police them 'be quiet' 'go to sleep' 'get back into bed' etc and I can't sit down until they drop off.

I feel your pain.

[Theyaremysunshine]

I'd get them cheap plug in night lights and close the doors. Don't know why you'd have to open them later anyway? Then sit on a chair on the landing web surfing and anyone who comes out goes to bed 15 mins earlier the next night. Anyone quietly making no fuss at all gets 15 mins later bedtime. Let them go to sleep listening to an audio book story.

Expect to sit on that landing for a week.

I'd also give the 7 year old half an hour of extra time downstairs. Divide and conquer.

No screen time for an hour before bed.

Explain all this beforehand.

I would imagine the other behaviour will settle when they're getting more sleep, but to get 1 to 1 time properly could you take one out for tea or to swimming or walk, and the other at a different time? Maybe one with you one with DH and then swap the next week?

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

Have you read Siblings Without Rivalry? I've found it hugely helpful. In fact I need to read it again to refresh my memory for ideas.

[ilovepowerhoop]

I would stagger bedtime and put the younger one to bed first. My ds is 7 and his bedtime on school nights is 8pm and an hour or so later at weekends/holidays. I would also shut the door and give them nightlights. My 2 have their doors shut all night as do dh/I.

[ThinkIveBeenHacked]

5yo in bed at seven, keep 7yo up til eight.

Why do you need to open the doors at night? little lamp by the bed for them.

[Snowie2]

Thanks this is hugely helpful. I'm definitely going to sit on the landing & police bedtime for a week starting tomorrow & impose strict timings too. If I'm consistent they'll hopefully get the message. An audio book would definitely help too it might settle them quicker than tense mum with a fake cheerful tone :/ I'll also get that book at some stage god knows I need it. As for separating them & taking them out I have very little time do actually do that unfortunately but will have to make time. I usually end up taking DD as she's more glued to me or both want to come. To leave one behind would cause ructions ! I also need a list of effective punishments early bedtime definitely but we'll have to listen to the dramas.

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

Dd just colours or does something crafty whilst I settle youngest to bed. He now gets that he's youngest and therefore can't stay up as late. It did cause problems when I first instigated it though but consistency paid off.

Can you start bedtime routine sooner? Then even if they do cause problems the delays won't impact the final drop off time so much iyswim?

[Snowie2]

I can't start sooner as only get in from work at 6pm which is bad enough in itself :/

[Snowie2]

Just to say I think it's working thanks so much ! My DS is down 20 mins so early to bed tomorrow today was the first day I could impose it but hopefully if we're consistent we can reclaim some time !

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

That is so great. Make sure you praise him loads too. Might make him try even harder x

[Theyaremysunshine]

Really glad you feel there's light at the end of the tunnel. Keep going OP and let us know how it goes. You'll get there if you stay consistent. Good luck.

[Theyaremysunshine]

How are you getting on OP? Hope nights have improved a bit.