Caught DS lying. He doesn't get how serious I am about hating lies. What punishments do you use?

[CrapBag]

DS has only just turned 5 so still young.

He keeps scraping his school shoes and the fronts are getting so scuffed they are in danger of ending up with holes in. After always looking after his shoes, this has been the first pair that have ended up like this. I found out he is having races at school and starting off by having the top of the shoe on the ground, then when he sets off the whole top part of the shoe is completely scraped.

They are clarks and not cheap. I don't want to go down the cheaper shoe route as I know they are not going to last 5 minutes, we are on a tight budget but I do like to get decent shoes and so far they have had no problem in lasting.

Anyway, after I showed DS a different way to start off his races, it stopped for a while. Then he started scraping them again. I took his wallet with his money that he has been saving and I told him if he didn't stop I would be taking his own money to buy new ones (although as he hasn't outgrown them yet, I won't be getting new ones but he doesn't know this). This was enough and I thought we had cracked it.

Then yesterday he had scraped them yet again. First time for a while. He was adamant he hadn't done it, swore blind he didn't etc etc. I asked him about it again this morning and he STILL insisted he hadn't (it was obvious they had just been scraped as DH had cleaned and polished them the night before and there were new marks). Then DS changed his story and said they had been scraped and he blamed another child for doing it. I asked how and he came out with some crap that definitely did not make any sense and would not have resulted in shoes being scraped. He finally told me that it was him and that he had done it through having races.

I was FUMING!!! Not about the scraping so much but the fact that he lied over and over and he blamed his friend. I took his leappad that he has just got for his birthday and I said I would be keeping it for a while as I was so angry and disappointed. I also told him it was more about the lies and blaming that I was angry about.

This evening I wanted him to tell DH to reiterate how we do not tolerate this behaviour and he was adamant he couldn't remember what we had talked about (this morning), then I left them to it and DS came out with the same crap about his friend doing it, so he carried on lying. I was so annoyed I didn't go swimming with them, something I enjoy doing weekly.

I don't know how to handle this. How do I make DS understand that he is not to lie and blame others and then even after he has been punished and we have talked about it, he denied it all yet again. He clearly learned nothing at all.

[WaitingForPancakeDay]

I don't know from what you have written if you have sat him down and explained why lying is unacceptable. He might not understand that you just telling him means its wrong. Think like him and ask yourself why it is wrong to lie about scraping shoes? Perhaps you need to explain why small lies are just as wrong as big fat lies. Then also ask yourself if you ever lie to him.....

As an aside, I scraped my shoes deliberately once when i was a child because I hated them and wanted new ones....

[thehairybabysmum]

I also hate lying but.....I think in this case you need to consider that your over-reaction to the shoes being scraped has created this lie because he is scared of your response.

It is pretty normal for shoes to be scraped at school...the wear of both my two DSs has massively increased since they started school compared to nursery. IMO you are punishing him severely when he is playing a healthy non-violent playground game with his friends. I'm pretty strict but wouldn't be going berserk about this.

I now only buy the shoes that have the rubber toe protection. Clarks do them as do other brands.

[25catsnameSam]

He is very little for understanding the line between truth and lies. Be patient! My two have both told some whoppers, it maybe that he knows that scraping his shoes makes you unhappy, he's trying to find a reason that will explain the scrapes but not make you unhappy.
my method was to keep asking questions and then the truth comes out, just say calmly it's better to tell the truth in the first place, and try really hard not to get cross about what they've been lying about (ie ruining their shoes).

[lljkk]

I think you are way too hard on him.

[josiejay]

A 5 year old will lie to get out of trouble, they don't have a sophisticated enough understanding of right and wrong to know why they shouldn't. Maybe gently explaining about trust and why it's important that we tell the truth would be a more positive way of dealing with it than just telling him he is bad for lying?

[TheFallenNinja]

Way, way, way too harsh. Kids scrape shoes, kids tell fibs - fact. He lied to try to prevent the huge over reaction to what he sees as nothing.

It's a no win situation for both of you. If the reaction to wear and tear is massive then he will take the view to lie to try to prevent the reaction, this will of course lead to an even bigger reaction if he gets caught. But he might just chance his arm because he will think he won't get caught out every time.

This was me when I was five, that was my mothers reaction (plus a good hiding with a dog lead) and it was over shoes.

True story, haven't seen her for 25 years.

[Trazzletoes]

Yup, I also remember lying as a child to avoid parental wrath.

[Wereonourway]

I too think you are being way too harsh. 5 years old!?
He should be racing at play time, his shoes will get scuffed, his clothes will too.
He's probably bloody petrified which is why he lied.
Lying isn't acceptable but to me, and I know others may not agree, neither is being furious because a child has scuffed his shoes whilst having fun with his friends.
Look at cheaper shoes. They may not last as long but you may not be as precious if they aren't clarks.

[11Plustrauma]

Every wee boy I have ever known and most wee girls have scraped their school shoes with football, races, bike riding.

I think you need to lighten up tbh.

[Helpyourself]

You're way too harsh on him, and picking strange battles. You don't want him to play? and

[11Plustrauma]

Oh and buy him black trainers for school.

[pictish]

I think you need to buy shoes you're not precious about.
I think that he should be allowed to scrape his shoes doing races. He is 5, and he doesn't give a shit about shoes and nor should he. It's all about play at 5.

Come on OP - you're not being realistic at all. he lied to get out of trouble over something he doesn't understand why he's in trouble about in the first place.
Scraped shoes - ah well. And that comes from a fellow skinto. x

[nevergoogle]

he's 5, he's a boy doing running races,his shoes are going to get scratched up.

back off lady!

i'd lie to you too.

[Noodled]

Your understanding of his understanding is way off, this makes your post quite scary. He did learn something but nothing you want to repeat. Would you be open to a positive parenting course? Your local cc will run one or know where your nearest one is. Sometimes what we bring from our experiences makes parenting harder.

[nevergoogle]

isn't that the point of shoes?

[NotGoodNotBad]

Yeah, too harsh. Kids scrape their shoes, especially 5 year olds. You need to let me live a little. Even my 14-year-old DD scrapes her shoes think she climbs trees in secret.

[edam]

If you want him to tell the truth, you have to be far more reasonable and patient. If you make a huge to-do over scraping his shoes he will lie because he's five. You need to have reasonable expectations of his capabilities and his stage of development.

[LapsedPacifist]

He is lying to you because he is afraid of you.

He is too frightened to tell you the truth - which is that the shoes got scraped by accident while he was playing (which is what 5 year old boys' shoes are for) and he cannot remember exactly how it happened. You won't believe him if he tells you this, so he is trying to convince you that somone else (his friend) is to blame.

Poor little boy . Why don't you buy him some cheap shoes which he can run around and play in?

[PartTimeModel]

I also think he is making up these stories in an attempt to avoid your anger.

Would you prefer to have a happy active child? Or one with perfect shoes? He'll be grown out of them soon enough. Keep covering the scrapes with polish and allow him his lovely active fun and games with his friends. In the moment he is thinking about the race, not thinking oh no I mustn't do this because mum will be upset for a reason I don't really under stand.

[WiseKneeHair]

Very harsh.
The first pair of school shoes I bought for DS1 were completely scraped within a week. I learnt my lessons and got a different type of shoe from then on.

[NotInMyDay]

My DD is nearly 5 and is known to lie from time to time. It was really getting me down so I did some research into it.

• Children need to lie in order to learn the difference and benefit of the truth.

• Children will lie to save themselves from getting into trouble. They continue to lie as they so desperately want the lie to be true and the lines become blurred.

• Children do not believe you when you say I won't be angry if you tell me the truth.

• You should try to avoid putting children in a position where they think they have to lie. Try "I know you wish you hadn't..." "I think you might have done that because..."

• Try not to take it personally.

[steppemum]

Sorry but I agree with others, you are being too harsh on him.

All 3 of mine scrape school shoes in a way I have never seen on non school shoes, it is to do wiht playing on a tarmac playground.
Ds has clarks, he plays football in them, he has the ones with the rubber toe protection, he plays football in them and they last. Even if they get scrapped we polish them up over the scraps and he goes on wearing them.

It is hard when shoes are expensive, and I can't buy mine cheap ones or trainers because only Clarks fit.

At 5 he doesn't understand the money side, he is lying so that he doesn't upset you, your overreaction is causing the lie.

Of course talk to him about taking care and about telling truth, but calm down and back off a bit and let him be a boy.

[reddaisy]

What everyone else said and please, please, please take on board what everyone else has said and pick your battles. Yes it is annoying that he scrapes his shoes and yes it is annoying that he lied but just talk to him and explain why fibbing is wrong.

My mum overreacted about everything and I got so used to lying that it became second nature and even now it can be my default position. There was.never any incentive to tell the truth as she went mad about everything so I always thought it was worth giving lying a try. And it worked quite a lot so in your face mum

[OutragedFromLeeds]

You should probably start by examining your own issues tbh. You are being way too harsh on him.

I felt sad for him reading your OP.

From what you've said he is perfectly normal. A 5 year old boy who runs races, scuffs his shoes, doesn't do exactly what his parents have told him every minute of the day and tells lies to avoid trouble. Normal.

Your response? Worrying.

[Corygal]

He's lying because he's frightened of you.

Tell him why lying is wrong. If you want him to stop, show (don't tell) him that he can trust you for next time.