My feed
Premium

Please
or
to access all these features

Other subjects

I hate the expression full time parent!

253 replies

Jbr · 24/04/2001 19:58

It is always the term given to parents who don't have a job. Well, lets be honest, MOTHERS who don't work. (Men don't get these labels do they? In fact the very idea that a man wouldn't work because he has children rarely seems to crop up anyway!).

But my point is, I saw Carole Smillie on the front on a magazine saying "Why I could never be a full-time mum" which I inferred as "Why I could never give up work" or something similar. I would hope even if she worked on the Moon 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, she would still be a "full time mum". In fact I wish she would go to the Moon and take Carol Vorderman (another woman who wishes she didn't work - believe it or not - and once said she wishes she could stay home and be a "proper" mother!!) with her. You are still someone's mother whever you are. Why do people think being a mother means one thing and being a dad means doing something else?

Sorry I just had to rant!

OP posts:
Report
Midge · 24/04/2001 20:48

You are a full time parent whether you work or not, its so obvious to me so why do some people assume that you stop being a parent whilst at work. Ridiculous.
I was called "A homemaker" by a twit on the phone last week. Another bl**dy silly expression. Your house becomes your home whether you work or not and patronising me wasn't the way to make me change my house insurance thanks, it just made me want to slap the guy.
Had to get that one off my chest. Feel better now.

Report
Jbr · 24/04/2001 22:21

Looking at it from another angle, I called myself unemployed and always have in times when I haven't been able to work and some cow once said "No you are not, you are a stay at home mum!, you are NOT unemployed or out of work!" I don't call the time I spend with my child a job or doing my own tea or dishes etc. And you are right, it takes all sorts to make a home and those domestic things both partners (if there are 2) do anyway, the kids do it and often help around the house, so you could say they are "homemakers" as well. But the expression "homemaker" isn't as bad as "housewife"!

OP posts:
Report
Jbr · 24/04/2001 22:34

Sorry, it's me again. I've just found a forum on a website for men who either don't work or work at night so spend a lot of time with their kids during the day. A bit of role reversal which is great but straightaway the "tag-line" on the site said "A forum for men who are raising their children", the implication being at home = raising children, working = not raising your own children. Even if you work you are still raising your children!

Grrrrrrr!

OP posts:
Report
Emmam · 25/04/2001 07:46

But surely calling yourself unemployed would suggest that you were looking for employment in the future?

Is being called a 'stay at home mum' so bad? I don't like the phrase 'full time mum' because, as you rightly say, whether you have a job or not you are always a full time mum. However, people will always find the need to define you in someway.

There is a sort of obsession with giving people labels - as soon as you are introduced to someone the next question is 'and what do you do?'. You don't have to justify your reason for being at home. Could you just say 'I don't work'? If they ask why not tell them its none of their business! Incidentally, what is wrong with feeling proud and saying 'I've chosen not to work while my children are growing up'?

You could always say you're 'self-employed'!

Report
Tom · 25/04/2001 08:03

It is a bit non-sensical, all this terminology, isn't it. I really can't believe that Carol Vorderman doesn't want to be at work - what she does is incredibly stimulating and I'm sure she'd miss it if she was with a pre-verbal tot all day.

The idea that (largely for women) being at home = "being a mum" is crazy, and I think it gives kids a very negative view of work. How many have found themselves almost apologising to their kids that they have to go out to work and can't be with them, when all the while, are actually enjoying their work? Most of us like working - for the sense of fulfillment and social networks it brings. But are children getting the idea that mummy doesn't really want to work: "I'm sorry I have to leave you, I have to work" (not "I want to"). If so, what they are really seeing is mum leaving them to go somewhere she doesn't want to be! Wierd! Enough to confuse the brightest kid! Seems to me that kids would get a much more positive view of both work and parenting if we were really positive about our working lives with them as well, and didn't talk about "full time mums" (or dads). At the end of the day... all our confusion will confuse our children.

Yup, you're a mum or dad 24/7/365, and no amount of work, be it housework or paid employment will change that. I think the terms "full-time-parent" are simply borrowed from the world of work (where full/part time are legitimate titles), and are not relevant to being a parent. They only come up in conversations where people ask "What do you do"? - then those who stay at home need to add legitimacy (from the language of work) to their activity - hence - "full time mum/dad". Personally, when someone asks me what I do, I tend to say "I'm a hubby, a dad and a charity manager" (in that order - that's the order of importance they have for me).

Here's a good question: What would people do if they inherited enough money to stick in the bank and live comfortably off the interest?

Personally, I'd work part time - I love my job too much to stop it, but I'd love less pressure and more time with my son.

Report
Croppy · 25/04/2001 08:19

And what is it exactly that is preventing Carol Vorderman (Britain's highest paid female TV presenter) from giving up work if she wants to????

Report
Winnie · 25/04/2001 08:34

As a Mum at home all day, not currently in paid work,(although looking to get back to work asap)I object to the implication that parents such as myself don't work. How can one possibly justify paying a Nanny/childminder/nursery for "not working" if this is indeed the case?

I agree that terminology is difficult. You can't please all of the people all of the time, and yes, being a parent of either sex is a fulltime job but anyone who thinks that men always do there fair share even when a partner works full time should reread some of the messages on this site!

Being in paid work as a parent is obviously as much about caring for ones child as it is about caring for oneself but surely if feminism was/is about anything it was/is about choice. For women and men. I find it deeply insulting that parents who remain paid work free are so undervalued and stigmatised. Why can't all parenting positions be celebrated instead of the constant undermining of each position from the opposite corner? Or are we all simply endeavouring to justify our own, often guilt ridden, existance as a parent?

Report
Gracie · 25/04/2001 08:58

Spot on Winnie. So much of the sniping and defensiveness reflects women constantly trying to justify their own decisions. I think we should all relax and respect each other's choices.

Report
Emmam · 25/04/2001 10:46

What would people who are not in paid employment and stay at home to look after their children like to be referred as? Because face it, you're not going to be able escape without having some sort of label attached to you by the likes of insurance companies.

Report
Tom · 25/04/2001 11:12

Dads who've had this discussion have come down on "HomeDad".

Regarding the undervaluing of parents who are at home looking after their children: this is not unique - ALL parenting is undervalued - we are the most family unfriendly country in europe. Ask any working parent (male or female) how easy it is to get your employer to recognise the responsibilities we have at home and be flexible enough in employment practices - it's VERY difficult, particularly for men, who are expected to be breadwinners first and parents second (except, of course, in Croppy's profession, where no one cares if you have kids by the sound of things).

If there was a general appreciation of parenting that was reflected in more support for parents, and greater valuing of our role, in policy and the culture, we'd get somewhere, and it would help parents who don't do paid employment. They would be more valued, as would paid employee parents.

At the moment, we get precious little help from society, then blamed if kids go off the tracks.

ok, rant over.

Report
Ems · 25/04/2001 12:25

Was that you on local radio this morning Tom, 9 o clock news? Unfortunately screaming toddler in car, but I thought I heard 'Fathers Direct' and a comment on 'Older Fathers'.

Report
Debsb · 25/04/2001 13:51

I work 3 days a week, the rest of the time I'm very busy looking after home & kids, but when asked what I do, will always give my 'paid' employment first. I think this is because being a mum has no status in todays society. Perhaps I should start saying parent first & job second, as that is where my priorities lie.
I do love working part-time though, and think it makes me more able to give my best to the kids when I'm there.

Report
Winnie · 25/04/2001 14:02

I have to agree with you Tom this country really is hopeless in regards to parenting generally. And maybe we should all say parent first when ask what it is we do but I do quite like the terms homedad/homemum.

Report
Eulalia · 25/04/2001 19:37

Yes women are always labelled according to their relationship with people in the family. Newspapers tend to report "grandmother injured in car accident", ditto for mother of three etc. If it was a man it would just say "man". Also the age is always given even if this is totally irrelevant.

Report
Jbr · 25/04/2001 19:42

I don't go around telling people I have a son unless they ask! That's my private business. I said I was out of work when I didn't work, (now I have a job 3 nights a week). It isn't just about being a parent I have found that society in general doesn't want women to work! The term "housewife" was invented as a way of making being at home sound like a job in itself when society decided it was "unlady like" to do manual labour. I wouldn't dream of telling people what I do at home.

I also hate the implication that if you work you aren't "looking after" your own children! Again, an accusation only hurled at women!

OP posts:
Report
Suew · 25/04/2001 23:41

LOL, Eulalia.

A letter to the paper here last week requested the details of where prominent politicians bought their suits, ties, socks etc and which aftershave they wore.

The writer said that they needn't worry asking about the female policitican featured in a recent article as these details had already been well and truly covered!

Report
Jac · 26/04/2001 12:26

I can't believe it, I received my insurance papers through this morning and dh had put me down as a housewife.... grrrrrrrrrr!! Even though I'm actually employed by our own company!!

Normally I would laugh as I don't take that sort of thing seriously (personally) but I'm not in a very good mood today and threw a right wobbler at him. "How dare you call me a housewife", I told him I rather be called a dogsbody!

Report
Jbr · 26/04/2001 17:25

I don't know why he didnt just put "self-employed". I can quite see your annoyance!

OP posts:
Report
Chairmum · 26/04/2001 20:10

As a SAHM, I sometimes put down Household Managment Executive when asked for my occupation.

But I agree, its very hard to define roles in this day and age. And with reagrd to unfriendly employers, sadly, it's not just parents who have problems. Employers look very unsympathetic when told that time off is needed to attend a parents's assessment appointment for admission to an Alzheimers unit, a situation a friend has recently been in. No doubt the employers are delighted that 'granny' has now done the decent thing and popped her clogs, thus no longer inconveniencing them.

Report
Jbr · 10/05/2001 20:13

There is a website called "fulltimemums.org.uk". Presumably all mothers are welcome seeing as even if you work, you are still a full time parent!

OP posts:
Report
Batters · 11/05/2001 14:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Jbr · 11/05/2001 18:01

Yes, there is always a "you can work but on your head be it".

OP posts:
Report

Don’t want to miss threads like this?

Weekly

Sign up to our weekly round up and get all the best threads sent straight to your inbox!

Log in to update your newsletter preferences.

You've subscribed!

Jbr · 13/05/2001 16:06

More rubbish!! I found no less than 72 references to full time mothers in one search engine!!

Not to mention this tripe:

"A word of warning to feminists, this opinion is politically incorrect. To say working mother is an oxymoron. All mothers, especially those who are married, are working the equivalent of two full time jobs. My heart goes out to those women who are in a position where they have to work outside the home if their hearts are at home.

With the woman's rights movement that was flaunted around me as I was growing up in the 1970's, I was encouraged to think in grand terms of what I could possibly be. Then I was discouraged by my father's old fashioned notions and my mother's religious ideas. I wanted to do more than just "women's jobs" like teacher, secretary, or nurse. I thought I would be bored to tears at those occupations. I was thinking along the lines of writer, pilot, archeologist, disc jockey or something I thought would be exciting before I settled down and got married and can pursue a career from my home.

My mom worked a full time job when I was in third grade. Before that time she was pleasant. She had more time to be with my sister and me. She was there to help with homework. She was there to talk to when we needed someone. She was not as cranky, miserable, tired, and unpleasant until she worked a full time job. The load of the housework fell on me and my sister who was younger. An 8 and 6 year old cannot exactly clean a house very well without supervision and we had to bear the brunt of her wrath when the house wasn't clean. We fell behind on school work. I guess you can say we noticed the difference when mom wasn't home.

It wasn't her fault. We needed the money. My dad was reluctant to having her work, but allowed her since we were desperate. I knew if she had her way, my dad would be making more than enough money to support the family and she would be the perfect wife. Instead, she was tired at the end of the day and still had more to do. Us children were simply put on the back burner.

My husband's mother was also a full time worker as a secretary and kept very late hours. Most of the time she did not come home until 10pm. She had five children who had to fend for themselves for most of the day. Those were some of the most foul, obnoxious children you would ever want to meet. They would make the South Park children seem like boy scouts.

I attempted to work an outside job when my first child was born. The work schedule was too hard to juggle with a premature baby at home. We needed the money since we were in our first apartment and had hospital bills, but I just couldn't do it. I was up all day with my baby and stayed up all night in a gas station. Not only was I worn out physically, but when I saw my baby I felt sad that I did not have the energy I needed to be her mother. Eventually I did quit to seek at home employment opportunities.

Today, my full time job is wife and mother of two children. I do what I can to stretch the budget. I make what money I can through at home jobs, some better than others. We are by no means rich. In fact, we are making about $1500 a month. However, the benefit of being home and watching my children grow up is worth more than any money than I could make working a full time job.

The key to being a mother is one of priorities. Once you become a parent, most of your rights end when it comes to the needs of the child. A child needs to have a parent available to them 24 hours a day. It may be politically incorrect to say it, but unless you are in a situation of abject poverty or divorce, you should be at home with your child if you decide to have that child. It could be either the mother or the father or both who chose to stay home, but someone needs to be with the child who is not in the day care industry. A child needs a parent available at all times as much as they need shelter, food and clothing.

For women who have to work or choose to work, you need to set aside some quality time everyday specifically for your child. You also need to have some time for yourself so you will not burn out.

There needs to be a better system to support those who are at home with children. Tax breaks for stay at home mothers, loan programs for parents running at home businesses, assistance for those with needs for their children without welfare and so forth would help more mothers stay at home with their children. For mothers who have to work, they should get breaks for child care and more opportunities to leave work when something comes up with their children.

It is not easy to be a mother who has to work outside the home. I just cannot accept it as proper for a mother of children younger than 14 who work outside of the home. It seems a bit selfish. As a parent, part of that responsibility is self sacrifice. If you cannot sacrifice that part of your life, maybe you shouldn't have children. Once you have children and are put in a position where you have no other choice but to take on another job, then life becomes really hard."

On this website, there was a button to press "How helpful to you was this opinion" and 19 people put "Very helpful".

There was another site called "Feminist mothers at home"!! Surely that is a contradiction in terms. It was all about how we should do as men say and not have any money of our own because it damages kids for us to work!

OP posts:
Report
Debsb · 14/05/2001 11:20

Guilt rears its ugly head again! Whatever you do will have an effect on your kids, but I think overall parental styles are far more influential than whether you work or not. Your parental style will dictate the type of childcare you choose for your child if you work, and the values and behaviour you prioritise, whether you work or not. I wonder how much care that particular parent put into choosing schools for her children, or whether her children started palygroup or pre-school at 2.5 like so many children do here. I have spent a great deal of time ensuring that the childcare my children receive is the best available. For me that included working part-time, but it is a constant juggling act between the needs of all the family, the one who is always at the bottom of the list is me.

Report
Jbr · 14/05/2001 17:53

The fact is, why is it always the woman who gets hassle for working?! It isn't even a parental issue, it's one of basic equality!

Grrr. This is an anti-women site as far as I can see and there are plenty more out there.

OP posts:
Report
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.