English family moving abroad

[Lizs]

We are shortly, subject to work permits, due to relocate to Zurich in Switzerland for probably one year. We have son age 3 and baby due in August. Has anyone any experience of living abroad with small children which may make the transfer a little easier on us all and particularly any advice on Swiss Maternity facilities and protocols which we understand to be very good.

[Kia]

I expect you've thought of this but I've found the 'rough guides' books to be pretty good when going somewhere new. I'm sure there'll be one on Switzerland if not Zurich. They're not just for tourists, they give an awful lot of info and a starting point for others. I use them all the time when I'm preparing travel stuff for my boss. She likes to do what the locals do, not the tourist traps etc! You don't have to buy them, you can often get them at the library!

[Morag]

The Rough Guides are great for local info. Our library has one (and i live in the back of beyond) so try yours

[Muckle]

We moved to Belgium in 1994 when my two sons were 2yrs and 6mths old respectively. It was daunting, but I got to know people quite quickly through finding out about clubs and societies which catered for parents of young children. The British Womens Club was one, and although it wasn't really my cup of tea at all, it proved to be a stepping stone to meeting other people in the same situation, and finding out useful information eg good doctors, playgrounds etc. There was also a branch of the NCT in Brussels - maybe there is one in Zurich too, which had coffe mornings to go to. Amaerican womens clubs, which seem to be everywhere are also a good source of info and contacts. I also looked in the local newspaper and found a Belgian version of the NCT, where I met Belgian mothers - good for practising French! Finally, I don't know if it's the same in Switzerland but I guess it might be, children are guaranteed a free nursery place from the age of two and a half, which my son went to in the mornings. This was brilliant, I met lots of other families, he learned to speak French and in fact stayed there for three years in the end.

We have been back in the UK for three years now and are just about to move to Montreal - more French! - so I'm lookin g for any info about Canada..... Good luck in Switzerland - we had a great time living in Europe and made some very goodfriends of all nationalities

[Numbat]

Try to remember to keep any anxieties/negative reactions when you get there to yourself. e.g. don't go on about how much your 3-year-old has to adjust etc., but promote the attitude of looking on all the hassles as part of the fun. Good luck!

[Tel]

Having lived in a foreign country for the last three years I think you can rest assured that most other European countries are better equipped and more accomodating towards young children than the UK. Most noticeable difference for me is that no-one here wants to stop and admire my baby whereas abroad it takes forever to walk anywhere. I would say that it is a good idea to get private healthcare, at least to begin with, as you may find there are english-speaking medical staff that you can request to see plus bureaucracy can be a problem abroad. Also, take any favourite products/mail order stuff with you while you adjust to what;s available there. You;re due to have your baby in August - I had my baby in Spain and to be honest wish I'd had him here, mainly because of the language problem. I don't know about Switzerland, but my experience was that any ideas I had of my own about how I wanted to give birth were irrlevant - no aromatherapy and candles for me I'm afraid. This is cultural though, and I think it's important to find out hosptital policy beforehand. In the end , everything was OK and the staff were great, but not fully understanding everything can be very isolating. Coming home and having my son checked-up in english was a great reassurance. If you do come home, you may have to lie about how pregnant you are as most airlines won't let you fly after about 30 weeks. Good luck.

[Rat]

I live in Baselland (about 1 hour drive away from Zuerich) and have 2 girls (nearly 6 and 1.5). They were both born in Switzerland and have been in childcare 5 days a week since they were about 3 months old, as I work full time. They have both been in a Tagesheim (day care centre)in Basel where I work and are each now with a different Tagesmutter (a mother with her own kids who takes on one or two additional children) in our village. I don't know about Zuerich, but childcare is very well organized in Basel and Baselland, all Tagesmuttern who take on children are vetted and have to go on a 3 day-course. The amount one pays is means tested. I've been very very happy with both the Tagesheim and the Tagesmuttern. The latter is cheaper and more flexible, though (Tagesheime tend to have opening and closing times. As for having a baby - my perception is that medical care is very good indeed (thorough)in comparison with the UK (you get more scans if you want them), though if you really want pain killers it's a good idea to insist as these don't tend to be offered spontaneously, in my experience. Check that any relocation deal addresses medical insurance especially if you're expecting a baby. And your three-year old will be able to start skiing lessons next season! Good luck, and if you want any more information, I'm happy to chat on the phone (+41 61 901 9319)!

[Rat]

I realised I totally misinterpreted your question and told you a lot about child care facilities you probably didn't need to know. I would add that Switzerland is very child-friendly in general and I understand that breast-feeding done fairly discreetly is not as frowned-upon as in UK. Children aged 4-5 are heavily encouraged to walk to Kindergarten alone (probably unheard of in UK!!. Childrens' clothing is quite reasonable compared to UK especially when purchased from Migros (a large supermarket chain)or EPA or ABM, to name a few. As for the language, the Swiss are very multi-lingual and in Zuerich which is quite international I don't think you'd have trouble linking in with other English speakers. Kids are also quite welcome in most restaurants serving alcohol (pubs as in UK don't seem to exist except for the odd "Irish -style" pub) - I've never had a problem taking my girls in - usually they are highly adored!

[Allschwil]

We moved to Switzerland last October with our 14 month old son & me 6 months pregnant. Because I was already pg the insurance company would only give us minimum cover. It was unbelievably fantastic. Nearly all the medical staff, docs, nurses, midwives spoke English, the hospital was the height of modern luxury, I couldn't have wished for more. In my city there's an equivalent of the NCT, and I'm sure there's something similar in Zurich. I've met loads of English, American mothers, nearly every nationality (except Swiss, who seem to hide).

In the summer it's supposed to be great for kids - most bars & restaurants having open air bits & kids areas. The public transport is great - nearly every bus & tram has special baby carriages to take your pushchairs on.

I really love living here in Switzerland - great for hopping over to France or Germany for shopping, days out in the mountains etc.

One regretable draw back - no 2-seater supermarket trolleys so baby has to go in sling - hard work. Oh and no Calpol or nappy sacks, so come prepared! Good luck - hope you enjoy it as much as I do!

[Rat]

Hello Allschwil, we used to live in Allschwil before we moved to Frenkendorf 9 years ago(very near the MMM and near the end of the number 8 tram stop.

[Allschwil]

Dear Lizs, went to Zurich last Saturday & I'm sorry to mislead you, but the trams there are a bit old fashioned & don't have the same great baby carriages we modern Baslers do. Had to correct myself in case you hold it against me or have a crushing disappointment when you arrive. Saying that, Here in Basel anyway, most people are very helpful in getting you on & off, plus the Zurich tram people must be updating there fleet sometime..

PS Look out for Luxembourgli - delicious (but expensive) treats exclusive to just a couple of shops in Zurich, so I believe. Worth an hours' drive.

Rat - small world. We live by the Dorfplatz - I bet you could pass on a few tips to a new girl. Like how do you meet a Swiss, for example, or learning the language?

[Lizs]

Thanks very much to all who have sent advice, especially Allschwil.

I will be in the same boat medical insurance-wise as I won't qualify for the full cover due to the pregnancy being a pre-existing condition, but it is reassuring to know that the care is first class all the same. I've made contact with a locally produced journal "Mothering Matters" and have a contact for the local La Leche League. We're also hoping to meet others in a similar position via the local International Primary School of Zurich.

Any further suggestions welcome. We're due to relocate at end of May.

[JJ]

We're moving to Zurich sometime early next year. The first thing I'm wondering is if we should plan to move on one of the "official moving days". Will we find a place if we move some other time?

Lizs, thanks for the info about ZIS. They've said that it's possible for him to start next February (ideally we'd move in late January). Do you have any childcare arrangements for the baby? How did that work out?

[LIZS]

JJ
Nice to hear from you again.

Word of Warning - Renting over here can be very difficult and would suggest you start to look as soon as you know when you may come. There are "official" dates which tend to be end of March and September but people do come and go in between but it is then up to the outgoing tenants rather than landlord to find replacements. Unfortunately for you this often happens by word of mouth or through property agents, so it can be a matter of right place-right time. Suggest you are as flexible as possible in where you can live. Many people come to temporary accommodation and look once here.

Having baby here was far better than my UK experience but have not as yet explored childcare for her. There are Kinderkrippes (creches),Tagesmutter (Child Minders) and MuKi (Mother and Baby) groups but most are Swiss German which I confess to finding intimidating. English groups seem to be in Zurich City or other side of lake. Some employ Au Pairs but there are strict requirements.

Hope this is of some help. Don't hesitate to post again if you would like further info.

Good luck,

LizS

[JJ]

LizS, Thank you! It's official, we're moving at the end of Sept/ beginning of Oct. It's flexible, so we should be able to move on the official moving day. Do you know when most of those go on the market? We get one house hunting trip, but it can be anytime.

I'm thinking of coming out in May to visit the international schools. The one your kids are attending seems great, but my husband will work northeast of Zurich City and I'm not sure of the commute. Also, it'll depend what kinds of houses are around the schools. We're looking for a 4 bedroom detached house with a decent garden.. any suggestions? Have you heard any dirt on any of the other schools?

We're really excited. Have you had a good year?

[LIZS]

Dear JJ

Glad to hear you're now officially moving here.

Most leases we are aware of have a 3 month notice period so May would probably be too early to view what might be available although you would at least be able to get a feel for where you want to live. I don't know what your budget is like but houses as you know them are rare. Most people live in apartments or 'houses' which are ostensibly apartments with own front door (sometimes over more than one floor)/ townhouses and perhaps garden or large balcony. However living accommodation is a good size in comparison to England, so our 3 bed apartment here is as big as our 4 bed house in England but without a garden. (Communal grounds and play area in complex)

As to area it would depend exactly where your dh is going to work but to cross the city in rush hour is not always the easiest journey. I would certainly not advise doing it yourself with the children regularly. You may find that you would prefer to base yourselves to the north of Zurich in which case the Wallisellen school would be nearest. Accommodation around the schools is in very high demand, and not necessarily the best, so most either drive in or use the School Bus system.

I don't know much about the other schools as we made the decision to live down here very early on,except that the Zumikon one has a reputation for very long waiting lists. ds' class only has 9 in it at the moment due to recent school expansion so I wouldn't have thought there would be a problem getting a place there.

Hope your plans go well and let me know if I can provide any other info.

Good luck and perhaps see you soon!!

[JJ]

LizS, thanks again for the info! I've just discovered a Yahoo group called "Expat Moms in Switzerland" . It's fairly American as you might have guessed from the name but seems to have some good info.

I'm visiting schools at the end of May. Would you like me to bring you anything from the UK? I could easily drop it off with the school secretary when I'm at ZIS. Thanks again!

[LIZS]

JJ,

Thanks very much for the offer - you've obviously got a sense of the home comforts which we all crave and are often unavailable here. However we have visits back to UK in the next few weeks so , unless we forget something critical it probably won't prove necessary.

Have tried, and so far frustratingly failed, to access Expat Moms but will persist as the titbits I have seen in mags here sound interesting.

By the way which ZIS site are you visiting ? Kilchberg is exclusively aimed at Preschool, Pre- Kindergarten and Kindergarten age groups and seems more intimate whilst Waedenswil caters for a much wider age group and has more of a formal school atmosphere, but far newer facilities. Incidently Kilchberg is much closer to Zurich but property prices and taxes(!) reflect that.

Good luck with the visits and let me know if there is anything further I can help with.

[JJ]

LIZS, Thanks once again! I've got no idea which campus I'm visiting as it's all in the hands of HR now and I'm the last to know. We have, for the most part, decided to live in or around Winterthur as my husband will work in Opfikon (?) near the airport and there is a new international school in Winterthur which looks good.

Yes, the comforts of home. I'm American and miss the most horrible of American foods: Miracle Whip. Luckily, my British must-haves are a bit more admittable: Maldon Sea Salt and Colman's Mustard. If you do forget something critical, just let me know! (Critical to me means Miracle Whip, so let that be your guide. )

[LIZS]

Dear JJ

I guess your visit is imminent. Hope all goes well and that you find what you are looking for. I'm afraid I know little of Winterthur but it would be handy for travelling to Germany and Austria at the weekend ! Also close to Airport and Ikea / Toys R Us !!

Good luck for the visit and let me know if you have any queries afterwards.