Illegal Childcare

[NotQuiteCockney]

In our neighbourhood, there are a couple of illegal nurseries. They're parent-run, and take place in parents' homes.

The nurseries advertise quite a bit, in the library and in local stores. I even saw one of them mentioned in a newspaper article on the weekend (with enough details that anyone who knew anything about nurseries would know it was illegal).

How illegal is this? Who would be charged? And with what?

I'm concerned that something will go wrong (accident, fire). I'm also a bit concerned that the childcare co-op I'm in (which is Ofsted inspected etc etc) will suffer as a result, as people are made nervous about parent-run childcare.

[charliecat]

Are they not just childminding?

[NotQuiteCockney]

Well, no. They have employees doing the caring, and they're not registered childminders.

The nurseries move from house to house, on a monthly (or something) basis.

[Blu]

How do you know they are illegal?

I don't know 'how' illegal, but presumably they would be closed down. Which is the main thing - because without public liability and otehr relevant crucial insurances - not to mention safety checks, the consequences of any accident could be even more distressing....

I would report them to your local authority.

[NotQuiteCockney]

I know they're illegal (or at least, not registered) because a) I've been told and b) they move premises every month. If you move premises, as a nursery, you can only operate for two hours per day until your premises are inspected by Ofsted (been through it with our co-op).

[lulumama]

well, it is a shame if that is the case when it takes business away or has a negative effect on ofsted inspected legally run nurseries....i would report it...as Blu says, the repercussions of a an accident would be awful....i take it that they are cheaper than the legally run nurseries..

[lulumama]

are they moving frequently to avoid inspection?

[Skribble]

Are children definatly being let in other peoples care?
Are people being paid for this care?

I would have a quiet word in someones ear to alert them to this arrangment, it isn't good for a whole lot of reasons. If they are notbothering to register, I am sure there are lots of other things they don't bother to do.

What about an innocent anonomas (SP?) enquiry to the pre5 section of the local council asking what childcare is available and would they recomend have they heard of this place.

[NotQuiteCockney]

They are cheaper, yes, quite a bit.

They move regularly because that's the deal. They don't pay rent, they are hosted in the home of one of the parents, but they move regularly to share the 'burden'.

It's pretty cheap if you're not hosting, and very cheap indeed if you are.

[NotQuiteCockney]

Children are definately being left, people are definately being paid.

The parents aren't doing the caring, there are a few nannies or something paid to do the caring.

If it was just 'swapsies', it wouldn't be illegal would it?

[NotQuiteCockney]

Hmm, I may well make an inquiry. I'm surprised it's been going on so long. They advertise in the local library!

[NotQuiteCockney]

No, it's 10 kids or something, three nannies, and it moves house all the time.

You're right, though, it's not that different to a nanny share, just on a bigger scale.

[MrsBadger]

I'm a coward so I'd contact them in the guise of a prospective customer and say you're thinking of joining.
Ask for the documents you'd normally ask for fromam nursery / nannyshare - their Ofsted report / nanny quals / registration details etc.

[NotQuiteCockney]

I am 100% sure they have no Ofsted registration. Really really. There is just no way they could.

It probably doesn't help, but of course people I know have used this 'nursery'.

[Skribble]

If you are sure it isn't just a nany share or circle meeting up then I would inform someone. Doesn't sound like a very responsible set up and some parents are just naive about this kind of thing.

Fair enough if it is a couple of freinds sharing a bit of baby sitting, but this sounds like a bit more and if money is changing hands then I would have no qualms about shopping them, they are avoiding inspections, tax, insurance and loads of other things.

[NotQuiteCockney]

Oooh, yes, good point re: tax. Ok, will have to figure out who to report them to.

[NotQuiteCockney]

Yeah, the homes thing is the showstopper. And the thing that worries me, too, tbh. Premises are inspected for good reasons.

[bundle]

these kind of arrangemnts seem like a good idea until things go wrong..that's why OFSTED etc are there to protect children/parents. when things are going well it all seems very relaxed but I bet the bigger they get (beyond nanny share for 2 or 3 people) then political/financial/logistical problems raise their heads...

[bundle]

also things like allergies - there are formal arrangements for administering medicines and protocols eg if one child is taken ill, who accompanies them to hospital etc. Not to mention child protection issues (who's in the home apart from the direct carers). I would be very worried about this sort of thing.

[Skribble]

Thats is true perhaps we are not all worried about public liability and the ability to sue someone but I would like places to have protocol in place for administer medicines and dealing with accidents. Different with one Mum looking after a kid not 4 assorted persons who don't kno jimmy has already had calpol.

To many kids and carers for a informal arrangment to be safe, secure and work well.

[funkimummy]

Hi,

My hubby works in insurance, and it's actually not illegal not to have public liability insurance. The only insurance they would legally need is employers liability.

Ring your council and speak to the childrens education and welfare department to see what they say about this type of childcare arrangement.

Is it illegal to pay someone who isn't qualified to look after children?!?!

Doesn't sound exactly Kosher. I can see how you'd be worried. I wouldn't leave my child there!!

[Skribble]

You daon't have to be qualified as such to be paid to undertake childcare, but unless it is a nanny type ararangment in a private home you have to be registered.

Nannies and childminders don't have to be qualified but all childminders have to be registered and inspected, you wouldn't pass an inspection without public liability I think, and any decent place wouldn't consider not having it.

[kiskidee]

the premises in which the children are kept would also be certified for health and safety requirements before they could operate as a nursery.

all people who come into contact with the children would also have to have a Criminal Records Bureau check against things like List 99. By all people who are not the parents of the children, i mean family members and friends who may come into the 'homes / nursery'.



I think it can become a very dangerous scenario and before we demonise the users or creators of such schemes, (not saying we are!) please remember that some people are desperate for childcare as they have no choice but work which can lead into taking risks like this.

[mumofhelen]

It's a long story but to cut it short, I have to use commercial insurance for my house/home. There are several clear criterias for this including holding activities for which a fee is payable. A home which is used for public means - even if it is for charitable purposes must have public liability insurance and be up-to-date for relevant HSE - have an accident report book, compliant to a myriad of Acts of Parliament - including the Disability Act of 1995. Quite frankly, I'm amazed these people are willing to take on such a risk. All it takes is for a child to get hurt and the parent(s) to put a claim against the homeowner's insurance. If the household insurance company finds out that the home premises have been used for commercial purposes, they will not pay out. The individual householder will be liable - it's a sure way to loose your home as the person suing can place a writ on the individual(s) property, including the family home. And I've only given you a taster on the potential civil procedings...I haven't even began to give you the low-down on criminal procedings....Incidently, excuses such as "I didn't know" and "I was desperate for childcare" are no defence in an English Court of Law. It's been tried before and people have been caught out. I can only repeat my utter astonishment to the risks and liabilities these people are taking.