DS, 4.3-asked to leave nursery at school due to poo issues, what to do , long

[funkypigeon]

Have posted before about DS and the troubles we've been having with trying to get him clean. Bit of background- chronic constipation, has been on movicol now for over a year. Up until 2 months ago would be going all, (numerous, small) poos in his pants. Now doing main one in the toilet with lessening shouting/screaming/crying. Still denies needing to go, and has always got done poo in his pants between getting him trying to hold it in and me actually getting him on the toilet.

He was at the nursery attached to the school my eldest attends, and although I was reluctant for him to start there last September, I went along with it, with much encouragement from the school itself, saying the peer pressure would help to sort it out, and that they would always change him when necessary. Now, after nearly 3 months there, they can't cope with him, and I don't blame them- only 2 staff for 26 children, and they need to change him up to 3 times a day.

The head called a meeting and has said they still want him there, but clean and can I take him out of school for a week so sort it out. I've been on leave from work do have been able to have him. Not much improvement.

I am by myself- his dad is blaming me for not having trained him early enough. He is keen to keep him there after this week, but I can't see this improving in such s short time, and they can't keep his place open indefinitely. The school have been really good about it, and I know it's a completely different setup to day care.

What to do? New nursery? Childminder? I'm spinning because he absolutely HAS to get this by Sept. I work part time and am back next week.

Any help, similar experiences, I'd be so grateful. And thanks if you've read this far!

[WillowB]

They are not allowed to exclude him because of this. I am an early years teacher & our nursery used to refuse to take children into nursery that had not been potty trained as did many other nurseries. In the past few years the guidance has changed as so many children are starting school/nursery in nappies. ALL children are entitled to access state provision and excluding children with continence issues is denying them equality of opportunity with their peers in a similar way to refusing to take a child who is deaf or blind. In fact I think continence is specifically mentioned in the disability discrimination act.
It is up to the school to find a solution. They need to think creatively e.g could they borrow a member of staff from another class when your son needs changing? It is not good enough to just say he can't come back until he is clean. I'm gob smacked that they haven't encountered this sort of thing before. In our nursery we have approx 5 children in nappies consequently we employ an extra member of staff to cope with all the changes.

I would contact the LEA to check their stance, enlist the support of your GP/health visitor and then tackle the head. Good luck

[FiveGoMadInDorset]

It will not take a week, DD is now clean in school in Year 2 she went through reception and Yr 1 with haveing to be changed with the same problems as your son has got, you need to emphasise with a Dr's letter if necessary that it is a long term condition that is not going to go away with a week off from nursery.

[zumbaholic]

Are you getting medical help with this issue? I ask because my ds had/has toileting problems/soiling (although yr4) and we were hooked up with the continence team who would come out to his school and meet with me, they were/are extremely helpful and very knowledgable.

And i agree with above poster, will take longer than a week to sort this (why on earth did they think a week was achievable??)

[Bubblegum78]

Sound advice WillowB, that's very interesting to know.

My DD has the same problem but she is now under paeds at the local childrens unit as she is 7yrs now and is still having probs being clean.

She has what she calls "gloopy poos" and she gets into a right mess at times as her stools are never formed.

[funkypigeon]

willowb

Thank you. I thought the same about them not being able to exclude him, but the head has told me that it's different until they are in formal education, which will be reception in sept. If he isn't sorted by then, he will have to be statemented apparently.
They have said that of course they come across this sort of thing before, it's just that the frequency per day, coupled with the fact that he's not improving, is leading towards him being excluded.
I will look into your advice, thank you.

[LucyLastik]

The HT is talking rubbish

[Picturesinthefirelight]

No it's not different.

My dc go to a private school so you would think they really could choose who they admit but the nursery manager told me when I rang to delay ds starting due to continence issues that they wernt allowed to do that under DDA.

[funkypigeon]

Thanks all.

This whole 'week off nursery' thing is really frustrating for me, as a week is neither here nor there for me since I've been dealing with it day in day out for over two years. It isn't going to resolve in this time. The school and my stbxh are convinced it's all due to behaviour and control and I feel like I may as well be talking to the cat, for all the understanding I get about explaining his condition. Just feel so alone right now with it all. Will get on with it first thing and make an appt with the doctor as a first step.

[WillowB]

Hope you get the support you need OP. stand your ground. & let us know how you get on.

[Purpleprickles]

I agree with WillowB, previously a nursery teacher for 3 years, now Reception. Children cannot be excluded for not being toilet trained. The Nursery should also have a nappy policy which sets out changing procedures, staffing etc. Children still training in my nursery have come in with plenty of clothes changes or pull ups and staff have worked together with parents to support the child. If your ds has a medical reason for finding toilet training hard then this week exclusion is even more ridiculous.

Also statements, in my experience, are extremely hard to get so unless your ds has other needs I doubt the school would be successful in applying for one on the grounds of problems with toileting.

I hope he gets some help from your HV or GP. I'm sure he will get there, not all children can do everything at the same time or when the school or Early years curriculum dictates they should.

[funkypigeon]

Thanks again.

I will update, I just hope we get somewhere before I'm completely grey!
This has been the most challenging aspect of parenting for me so far, that's for sure.

[mellowcat]

Hi

This is a new resource for nurseries and schools, maybe you could give the link to the school..

So sorry you are going through this, they should be helping you, not making it all harder.

www.eric.org.uk/assets/The%20Right%20To%20go%20WEB%20%20Guide%2012.2012.pdf?PHPSESSID=cb7a36892a0b4286a90d7de78ddc82c8

[GotAnyGrapes]

I feel for you! They are in a difficult situation in practical terms but nevertheless, your DS has a medical issue and they (not you) need to find a way around the practical issues.
I do hope they know that they are not legally allowed to refuse to have him simply because he has toileting issues? The biggest thing that strikes me as worrying is the notion that if you take a week off you can sort it. They clearly are failing to understand that your son has a medical issue rather than you bring unable to find the time to toilet train him. This lack of support and understanding from a school would worry me.