Biting incident on day 3 settling in - what to do?

[TaiTai]

Hello

Some of you may have seen I posted asking for thoughts on whether nursery one day a week is a good idea. I posted earlier this evening to say settling in was going well, but what I didn't mention - and have been stewing on! - is an incident that happened today.

My dd, 13 months, was playing and a 10 month old boy came up to her. At first it seemed he was being affectionate; I was further away from dd and the boy than the staff and wanted to see what they would do. They had told me that he bites. He put his mouth to dd and I got up. THe staff told him "no" very loudly and kept saying, but the one nearest to him didn't move (she was cuddling a child who, btw, is 14mths old and all the time I've been there - three half days in total now - has ALWAYS been getting one-on-one attention, being cuddled, while the other babies are left to their own devices.) DD cried, I went and picked her up. The staff told me that the boy didn't bite. Half-an-hour later she had a massive red mark. I pointed it out and said it looked like he had bitten her, and they finally conceded he did. The boy is very sweet and is only 10 months old, so obviously doesn't no better, but I have become increasingly upset about this over the course of tonight. DD has been in contact with other children at least once a week since she was 5 weeks old and has NEVER had an injury from a child before. Nor have I seen any child with a mark as bad as this. DH, who is more relaxed about this than me, says it looks like it will come out into a bruise in time.

I was planning on speaking to the manager about this tomorrow and saying that I do not want the boy being allowed to touch dd, and that if she receives an injury again I will withdraw her. I would also like the boy's mother notified. Is this reasonable? Do you think I should keep dd there? I was in the room at the time, so I do feel guilty, but as I said I was sitting back giving her space and watching how the staff responded to her. I do feel, as they know he bites, that the staff member nearest him should have pulled him off dd.

TIA

[chipkid]

what is the boy's mother going to do? he is 10 months old fgs-he is at nursery- she is not there!. This is exploratory behaviour on the part of the 10 month old-not a sign of delinquent behaviour for which his poor mother should feel ashamed!

In nursery environments this sort of thing happens. It is crap when it happens to your dd or ds I know. Your complaint is with the level of supervision in the nursery not this boy's mother!

[TaiTai]

I wasn't saying the child's mother should be ashamed. But if it was my child who bit, I would want to know. I would then keep an extra close eye on her when she was in my care (and not the nursery's) if she was playing with other children, eg at playgroup. I would also ensure I was saying "no" consistently if she went to bite me or another person and put her down if necessary (which I have ALWAYS done with my dd, and she has kind of got the message now).

[TaiTai]

ps: chipkid, think you were being a bit harsh and judgmental. no need for the "fgs", as I made it clear i thought it was normal behaviour for a 10 mth old.

[tuppenceworth]

I agree - it's supervision and discipline in the nursery!

It's the parent's problem if the child continues to bite outside nursery, but inside nursery it's up to the staff to deal with it in an appropriate manner, and barely acknowledging that it has happened is not an acceptable way to deal with it.

Do you have the choice of any other nurseries? Are you able to say that you don't think DD is settling in there if push comes to shove?

[colditz]

I would let the nursery know you are cross that they didn't intervene in time to stop something that they knew was likely to happen. Pointless saying that if she gets injured again you will withdraw her - it is a nursery, and with other children/babies around she will get injured occasionally.

TBH, rather than threatening to withdraw her, I would point out to the manager what you have noticed while you have been sitting in with her, and depending on how you feel about this tomorrow, when you have cooled down a little bit, I would either merely check your baby every day for injury, or withdraw her anyway.

HTH

[TaiTai]

just to make clear, of course I think it is nursery's responsibility when the biter is in their care. i mentioned informing the mother because i would like to know if it was my child. thanks for your thoughts, tuppenceworth, i was wondering whether the nursery's response was acceptable or not, and how I should deal with it. Yes, I feel comfortable saying she isn't settling in, but I wondered if I should give them a chance to discuss the issue and hopefully act quicker in future. And no, there are no other nursery options. DD is going to go for one day a week so I can start doing freelance work. If I don't take her to the nursery, I won't have the chance to do the freelance work. I don't want to go down the childminder route.

[TaiTai]

thanks for the advice, colditz. should i tell dd's key worker (the one who didn't react quicker) that i'm cross first, or go straight to the manager? this is my first child, so my first experience with nurseries or any type of childcare.

[pinkandsparkly]

Hi TaiTai,

I can totally understand where you're coming from with this and I do feel that the nursery nurses should have been a bit more proactive in trying to prevent this happening. I do wonder if possibly beacuase you were there they felt awkward about intervening. Even if they did feel awkward they should have gently moved the baby boy away and distracted him with something else.

Your initial reaction appears to have been concerned but in a calm and rational way but I expect as you've had time to 'stew' on it, the rational part of you has been beaten back by the indignant 'leave my baby alone' roaring lion that lurks inside all mothers!

I do think a little chat with the room supervisor and manager about what happened is needed and I think you should make it known that you didn't feel the staff acted fast enough or took it seriously enough. You should also make it known that you want this kind of thing monitored a lot more closely in future.

I also feel though that as your dd grows older she is going to experience a lot more scrapes at nursery, this is an enevitalbe part of mixing with other children,and as long as she is being supervised properly and all the appropriate safetly precausions are met it is unreasonable to expect the nursery to be able to protect her from every bump and knock.

I would also advise you to think about what you would hope to acheive by insiting the baby boy's mother be notified? What would you actually like her to do about her ds bitng your dd?

Hope this has been some help, I would monitor closely whether you think your concerns have been addressed over the next few days, trust your instincts every time and you will soon know whether you want to keep your dd at the nursery.

[Dragoness]

HI Taitai,

I also understand where you're coming from. From the sound of it, this was quite a nasty bite. The staff should have intervened physically rather than just verbally and I agree you should speak to the manager about this. I think it is worth giving the nursery another chance, and tell them to separate the biting child and yours in future, until the boy is out of his biting phase. On that note, I completely agree with you that if it was my child I would want to know whether they bit another child. I could then liaise with the nursery about whether my child appeared to be over his biting phase and it was now "safer" to let him play more closely with other kids. I think chipkid's response suggested a mother who works full-time and hardly ever sees her child/children interract with others, so doesn't see that it would be helpful and in the child's best interests for all its carers to know what stage in its development the child is at and co-ordinate their action to biting and scratching, like removing the child from others and saying "no" firmly but nicely.

[FairyMum]

I am suprised a 10 month old can leave such a bad bruise mark. I can't remember mine biting or being bitten that early. I think the bite mark started around the 18 month mark. It shouldn't be that difficult to stop a 10 month old from biting. They aren't that mobile at that age, are they? However, I do think that if you feel this strongly about bitemarks, you have worse to come and perhaps..just perhaps.....a nursery setting is not for you? I am not saying that staff should not deal with biting incidents and I agree as a parent I want to be told, but IMO it's part and parcel of nursery life to receive a few bruises and you need to have a slightly chilled attitude to it I think. I know some parents get very worked up over this and feel that the staff should see every little thing happening. It might not be you, but reading from your post it's either very new to you or you might never really feel at ease with your little one sharing space with hannibal the cannibal.

[SoupDragon]

It happens, it's horrible and generally speaking it can't be helped. Also, chances are your DD will receive an injury again - maybe from this child, maybe from another - and I think withdrawing her would be cutting off your nose to spite your face. It certainly won't hurt the nursery at all.

I think the staff should have distracted the boy rather than just saying "no". A 10 month old can not be expected to reliably react to the word "no". I'm not sure they'd be allowed to actually pull the biter off though.

Hopefully you feel a little calmer about it this morning. I remember when this happened to a friend's child and she and her DH were up in arms about it. they calmed down and were more than happy with the nursery for the next 4 years!

and yes, a 10 month old can leave a nasty bite mark - I saw it on my friend's child. Try rubbing some arnica cream on it to help with an bruising.

[TaiTai]

Thanks SoupDragon, Dragoness, and PinkandSparkly. As P&S suggested, I did react calmly about this when it happened but after stewing worked myself up in a lather. Fairymum, I realise that the odd stratch and bite are par for the course. I do NOT expect the staff to "see every little thing happening", but my point was that the DID see this happening, they DID know the boy bites (they told me his mother had told them that), and yet they didn't react enough and then told me he didn't actually bite dd, just kissed her, when there were clear marks to the contrary. And yes, a 10 month old can leave a bruise, you are welcome to come round and see dd's cheek if you like - the mark is still very evident nearly 24hrs later! I agree with SoupDragon that saying "no" to a 10 mth old is not enough; he doesn't understand "no" yet.

I have decided to have a calm word with the Manager about this. I am not going to ask for the child's mother to be notified (I did ask the question here "was this reasonable?" so I was looking for advice on that score). What I am going to say though is that if my child bites/scratches another child hard enough for a mark to be left, I would like to be informed. Not so I can lock dd in a dungeon as punishment, but because I am looking after her the six days a week she isn't at nursery and I want to know how she's interracting with children, as Dragoness said, and be on standby to distract her from biting a child while in my care.

[chipkid]

sorry tia if I upset you with my comments last night-I read your post as suggesting the mother should be "notified" as if to suggest that she is somehow responsible for the behaviour of her child whilst he is at nursery.

This touched a raw nerve with me-I have ben that mother! I have two children-a ds now 4 and a dd who is 17 months. Ds was always very "hands on" he didn't bite but he used to hit and push from an early age.

He went to nursery three days a week. Whenever there was an "incident" the nursery would tell me (which was fine) but they did it in such a way as to suggest that it was my child and so my problem-even when he was as young as the boy that bit your dd.

I was well aware when ds was with me that I had to supervise him with other children to a high degree (I only realise now I have an easy dd just how vigilent I was with ds at playgroup etc) it used to annoy the hell out of me that the nursery did not supervise him to the same extent.

My dd often gets pushed and hit at playgroup-so I do understand the feelings that it creates when your little one gets bashed and hurt.

sorry again for upsetting you-I hope you are able to resolve things with the nursery

[TaiTai]

And yes Soupdragon, you're right, withdrawing dd from nursery now would be cutting off my nose to spite my face. I am happy with them apart from that, so I'll have a word today - saying what I would like to happen in future, i.e. where possible, for boy and dd ot be more supervised when they are in close proximity as he is a known biter and for staff to react more than saying "no" from a distance - and see how it goes. Thanks!

[chipkid]

dragoness-I am not a full time mother who does not see her children interract. I have never worked full time since the arrival of my first child almost 5 years ago. I worked three days from my first child turning 8 months. I was a sahm for 18 months until January when I again returned to work for three days a week.

I clearly misunderstood the context in which taitai thought this mother should be "notified"

[Feistybird]

TaiTai, my DD from about the age she could walk, was bitten 7 times in total at nursery - once on her cheek, which looked just awful.

This was down to 2 children, I know this because one mother waited for me to leave nursery one night, told me it was her boy (that time), apologised profusely and said she would do everything she could, in conjunction with the nursery to stop it.

The other child was about 8months younger than my DD, and we knew it was her because she did it at the point where both me and her mum were picking our kids up. Again, 1 mortified mum.

the nursery tried everything - immediate exclusion (5 mins in the room next door with 1 of the nursery staff), rewards for days of no biting etc. It did stop.

Good luck, it is horrible and I can remember now the feeling that I wanted to swipe the little blighters who'd done it. But as others have said, some kids go through a biting stage (and thankfully neither of mine did) and it's all a learning process, both for the perpetrators and the 'victims' (and the parents and staff too I guess)

Good luck sorting it out, but I honestly don't think that moving your child will help at all, as another nursery is just as likely to have a child who bites - unless that is, you think the nursery aren't dealing with it.

[Bozza]

TBH i would expect that the nursery would have a policy of letting the mother of the biter know. I know my nursery always has - luckily for me neither of mine have ever done it at nursery, but I know a mother who used to dread picking her DS up because of this. Also normally if your DD was bitten during the day when you were not there you would be informed of this and given an accident sheet but the child would remain annonymous. However be aware that you will probably be withdrawing her in the next fortnight or so if you are not prepared for her to receive another injury - DD had a scratch the other week that was apparently unprovoked.

[mumeeee]

This is normal behaviur for a 10 month old. But hte nusery staff should have been keeping an eye on hom and distracted him if it looked like he was going to bite.
Have a chat with the manager about your concerns.

[TaiTai]

Hello, well it's sorted, had a (calm!) word with the staff in the baby room and also the manager (who was lovely about it,) and they have agreed to watch the boy who bites more closely when he is approaching other children and to distract him/pick him up if he looks like he's going to bite. I feel much happier now, especially as today I left dd for longer than twenty minutes for the first time. She was there without me from 10:30am to 4:30pm and didn't cry AT ALL. In fact the only time she's cried in the last week while she was settling in is when she was bitten. The boy concerned wasn't there today so I didn't have that worry, but dd seems really happy and fond of the staff already and that is the most important thing.

I read my OP just now and realised how ridiculous it must have seemed saying I was going to withdraw her if she received an injury again; dd has been pushed and scratched and bitten before while playing with other children, of course she has, but nothing as severe as this. I was feeling rather, erm, emotive at the time, but I think what I meant was if the staff didn't react better/quicker in future when they had the opportunity to do so. I do think though that as I was in the room that might have been an issue. I do think it is normal behaviour for a 10 mth old as dd did the same then (but with me and dh, not other children) but he does need to be watched as the bite was vicious and dd still has a big mark two days later.

Chipkid, thanks for explaining. What bothered me was that your only comments and sympathy originally were regarding the other child's mother when, with all due respect, I think a child being injured should always be considered above a mother's feelings. For what it's worth I didn't ask for the mother to be notified, but I do think as a policy a nursey should tell the mother anyway. It's a shame your nursery chose to tell you in a way that made you feel as if it was their fault though, but of course doesn't mean other nurseries will do the same.

Anyway, I'm happy and dd is happy. My only worry now is that she was so happy there I feel guilty for not putting her in nursery more than one day a week .