Is it really true that gym creches aren't obliged to change nappies?!

[dinny]

A bit of a long one, sorry.

We've recently moved out of London, where dd and ds went regularly to a FAB gym creche (where they were looked after beautifully and always had their nappies changed).

Moved here, and two weeks ago I checked out the local gym creche and it seemed nice so I booked dd and ds in (ds 18 months and still in nappies. Left them for an hour the first time and when I got back, ds was v smelly and had a poo in his nappy. And when I changed it, it had started to dry so was obviously not that recent. Anyway, I was fuming, complained to the supervisor, who basically said, "Sorry he had a poo in his nappy, but we don't always have time to change nappies." I was/am so angry - if I knew that I'd never have fecking left my baby there in the first place! was expecting it to be same as our old excellent creche! To cut a long story short, have been in conversation with the leisure`centre's facilities' manager ever since and her stance is apologetic, but basically that it's OK that they don't change nappies?? How can this be? Not sure if should inform Ofsted... (I will nevere ever leave my children there again, but wondering if I should speak to Ofsted anyway...)

Sorry - SO long!

[Calista]

Would have thought that anywhere that is registered with Ofsted (and they will be) for being able to look after children of 'nappy-age' would be actually neglecting children by leaving them in a dirty nappy. Absolutely disgraceful.

[dinny]

that's what I thought, Calista.

hmmm, think I will contact Ofsted to check anyway. awful, so angry I left poor ds with such paltry care.

[paolosgirl]

I don't know....our local council gym has notices up to say that they will come and get you if your child needs their nappy changed, or if they have to go to the toilet. I wonder if gym creches are different from nurseries in some way? Still doesn't excuse them...if they weren't prepared to change your ds's nappy they should have told you at the start.

[Calista]

Don't feel guilty, at least it was only for an hour. Being left in a dirty nappy seems to be the lesser of evils given the current happenings in daycare recently
Not trying to make light of your situation by any means BTW.

A parent of a new 6 mth old baby at one of the nurseries I used to work at was known for popping up at the window of the baby room at random times of day. At the time the staff used to think she was a v. paranoid mother to the point of oddness. In the nicest possible way of course, she was obviously totally in love with her baby. :)

However, I now think she was very wise. If and when I have a 3rd baby, if I am forced to have to put her/him in daycare I will possibly be the staff's worst nightmare!

You can't be too careful/paranoid these days with childcare.

[Calista]

This is from the \link{http://www.surestart.gov.uk/_doc/P0000410.PDF\National Daycare Standards for creches.}

It states on page 28 that "The registered person (i.e. the manager or owner of the creche) ensures that:

• Nappy changing facilities are provided which meet environmental health standards"
  

and also, perhaps more importantly: (on the same page)

"- feeding and nappy changing takes place in accordance with the child's individual needs and not as part of a nursery routine."

[mrsgee]

i have never heard something so ridiculous, a creche that doesnt change nappies. i used to be a manager of a day nursery with a creche attached to it, if the staff had done thia i would have had serious words.i would contact ofsted and inform the head office of this leisure place if there is one. its people like that that give good nurseries and creches and the people who have a genuine love for caring for other peoples children a bad name.makes me really cross!!

[hunkermunker]

Oh, Dinny, no! That's horrible

Don't you feel guilty though - not your fault!

[Aero]

Agree with Callista. They will be OFSTED registered and as such are required to comply with their standards. Her excuse re having no time is disgraceful. Would be difficult not to notice a child had a nappy needing a change. The 'whiffiness' in our gym creche yesterday as I was collecting ds2 was nearly enough to make me keel over! (and the offending nappy had been changed - the staff are lovely and wouldn't dream of leaving a child in a soiled nappy).

[notasheep]

At dds playgroup you need a Police Check before you can change a nappy so i am assuming staff hadnt had these(which they all should have)

[dinny]

think I am going to take it up with Ofsted - it's just not good enough. Facilities' manager said, "We'd like to offer you some free creche sessions to make up for your disappointment" - I was like, "Er, not in a zillion years are my children coming anywhere near your creche ever again."

Soooo different from our fab old creche.

I'm still so annoyed every time I think about it. Am amazed it is so busy and over-subscribed. Just goes to show many people will leave their kids in crap places.

[Norah]

Don't think this is that unusual - have been to two gym creches that don't do nappies. They have time limits on them - ie - no more than 2 hours per day per child - and they both stated clearly that they would not do nappies. Also heard tannoy's asking for "x" to return to creche - so maybe they called mums back if baby needed nappy changing. The girls were all police checked too.

I didn't have a problem with it - always changed dd immediately before she went in and never once had her back dirty - but then I knew what to expect !

Suspect they must be "allowed" to do it as it seems fairly common - but let us know how you get on.

[dinny]

Hmm, well, they didn't tell me beforehand they don't change nappies and it says in their literature they DO change them. If they had told me, I wouldn't have left my nappied baby there. Disgraceful!

[NotQuiteCockney]

There's a local creche for people doing courses at the library. And they don't change nappies, either. This isn't that unusual in short-term care.

[dinny]

Well, they should make it clear they don't (which this one didn't - in fact it says they do in their brochure).

[meggmoo]

Why on earth look after a baby if you won't change a nappy FGS, that's part of the care isn't it?

I agree that is sounds like neglect to me. I would have been really pissed off actually. Ds's creche even note down what time his nappy was changed and by whom.

[dinny]

exactly - very odd.

Meggmoo, that's what our old creche was like

[NotQuiteCockney]

You're right, it should be made clear. This class creche place is clear, and people are called back (I think?) to change nappies. And kids are never left for more than a few hours, although of course a few hours in a poopy nappy is far too long ...

[nannynick]

I would consider that the creche is in breach of National Standard 7.2 - Hygiene and also A4 and A5 in the babies section.
The \link{http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/publications/index.cfm?fuseaction=pubs.displayfile&id=2431&type=pdf\Guidance} states that Good hygine practice can include: changing nappies and undergarments when soiled or wet.

Norah, I am concerned by: "they have time limits on them - ie - no more than 2 hours per day per child - and they both stated clearly that they would not do nappies."

Why the 2 hour limit? Are they perhaps not registered - have you seen their registration certificate?

Creches must be registered if they operate for more than 2 hours per day, on the same premises on more than 5 days a year.

I wonder if they are trying to impose a 2 hour limit as an attempt to get around the rules?

Not all creches will fall under the creche standards, if they operate for 4 hours or more in a day, then they fall under \link{http://www.surestart.gov.uk/_doc/P0000411.PDF\Full Day Care standards}.

Reading the Creche Standards, Creches have to provide nappy changing facilities (See A.5) but it doesn't say that the staff are to change nappies... under A.4 nappies need to be changed in accordance with the child's need, but I suppose it could be done by the parent... though I do think that it's odd.

[dinny]

Thanks, Nannynic, great post. How would you suggest I proceed? Should I report them? Isn't going to affect my kids but feel I should take come action...

[LIZS]

[dinny]

Lockets, fac. manager has said she will change the literature so suppose they are taking action. not that it would persuade me to leave ds/dd there again! I'd be the last person to leave ds without nappy changing as you know!

LIZS, that was at T leisure centre btw

[dinny]

we miss her tons, Lockets.