Shall I do a little experiment ladies? Or am I a childish.......

[ScruffyTeddy]

So once again, ds's father has broken our agreement. Pick ds up on a Friday night and he is to stay one night at dads to be brought back around tea time (say 5.30-6 ish). I work all flipping week and would like one night with him at the weekend.

It started with ds asking dad to stay another night, I say no, ds dad says (in front of him) "why not, you're being unreasonable" etc...cue large rant at me). From the man who pissed ds around for 8 sodding years with contact/no show etc.

So, again tonight ds is not back yet. No phonecall to say why...I am sick to death of making dd wait for her tea so we can all eat together, and im sick of wasting my phone bill to keep calling this idiot who wont answer his phones.

Tonight I am not going to phone him. What do you think the chances are that he brings him back tonight? I could wring his neck for him right now.

[antartica]

If you know he's safe I'd be tempted to leave it and have a go when he drops him back, rather than pointless phone calls. Maybe say it disturbs his tea/bed time and if he can't stick to the agreement he shouldn't have him.

[tortoise]

Did he bring him back? He should stick to his agreement re; contact times.

[jellibabe]

Dont phone him. He is doing this to wind you up and get a reaction. Do you think he could cope with his son on a fulltime basis with the extra expense etc it would bring? Stay chilled and look after dd.

Repeat to x firmly when he returns ds that it confuses the children. They need continuity. If he continues to confuse them you will have to seek legal assistance to regulate the boundaries.

Good luck am trying to agree continuity with x over access arrangements myself just now. V frustrating.

[gillybean2]

Try and forget what's happened with contact in the past. Your son is having what seems like a good relationship with his Dad now. Don't be the bad guy by getting in the way of it, but do make the boundaries clear.

Don't engage in conversation in front of the children over this matter, and try not to loose your rag at your Ex. Deal with it as an adult should. I would write the Ex a brief and to the point letter (state facts and try and keep it unemotional). This should avoid conflict while discussing and to make your points clearly. Keep a copy of it in case you need it later so you can show you are being reasonable at court should it come to that.

If your Ex wants to vary the arrangements (have an additional overnight etc) make it clear to him that this has to be agreed at least 14 days in advance with yourself. Also be clear that it is confusing for all the children to attempt to vary the arrangements at the last moment and you don't want your son or daughter being brought into a discussion that should be between the two of you only.

Also state your point that you work all week and wish to have weekend time with your son.

Speak to your son and say you have discussed it with his Dad and that this is a matter for grownups to discuss and while he can talk to you about anything you and his dad must agree these things between you two. Also you will take his thoughts and feelings into account but any extra time with his Dad must be agreed at least two weeks in advance and you have explained all this to his Dad. Bite the bullet, show willing for your son, and agree to extra time one weekend if agreed 14 days in advance and see how it goes.

Does your ex have him overnight midweek? Could he pick him up from school one day if he doesn't already and have him for tea or even overnight? Suggest that as an alternative.

It's normal for a boy to want to spend more time with his dad as he gets older. However your Ex is getting all the fun time and none of the mundane school run, homework, uniform to sort out stuff by the sounds of it. Give him more of a taste of what being an equal parent is, or perhaps suggest every other weekend so you can both have quality weekend time together with your son.

Example Letter you could write:

Dear Ex

Further to our phone conversation [date/time] please be aware that I will not agree to any spur of the moment changes to arrangements with regard to the time [son] spends with you.

I do not believe it is fair to envolve [son] in any discussions we have over contact arrangements. It is upsetting and distressing for him. Please ensure all further discussions of this nature are not conducted in front of the children.

If you occassionally wish to have him for a longer time please could you discuss this with me in advance. As you are aware I work every week day and while I appreciate you wish to spend more time with [son] at the weekends it is also the only time I get the opportunity to spend quality time with him.

I would be willing to discuss the possibility of you collecting [son] from school during the week and having him until [time/overnight]. This would need to be on a specific night each week so that [son] is not confused by the arrangements and we can all work around it.

If this is not convienient perhaps you could have him for some additional days during the school holidays. Any arrangements should be agreed at least 3 months in advance of the holidays as I will need to make child care provision and book holiday time with work etc.

Please could you let me have your written response within 14 days. Otherwise I will assume you are happy for the arrangemenst to continue as they are in that you collect [son] at [day/time] and return him at [day/time] each week.

Yours sincerely

Follow this up with a further letter depending on his response... eg have not heard from you so assume you do not wish to vary arrangements and they will continue as [days/times] or if he discusses verbally Further to our discussion regarding the letter i sent you dated [date]... (then whatever you agree) or Further to your letter, I agree to you collecting [son] from school on [day] and returning him here by [time].... etc

Also any time he asks to have extra time as per the 14 day suggestion follow it up with a letter confirming you agree or stating why you do not agree on this occassion and suggesting an alternative.

If you need help with any follow up just ask

It's not easy being the reasonable parent, especially when he has mucked your son about in the past. But think about how it will look to your son if you act this way and don't always put blocks in the way of him seeing his Dad. Also think about how your actions would appear to a judge if this ever went to court. Your son clearly would like to see a bit more of his Dad, try and find a solution that works for you all.

Best of luck
Gilly

[Tinkerbel6]

scruffyteddy its nto on what your ex did making you look the bad person in front of your son, if you ex cant be trusted to bring him back on a saturday then maybe change the access for a saturday to sunday when he will have to bring him back to get sorted for school the next day, maybe you should go back to a solicitor and have it noted what games he is playing.

[gillybean2]

Tinkerbel6 is right that it isn't on what your Ex did. But is it any reason to rush back to the sols? Think about it... Your son is with his Dad having a great time, he says to Dad 'I wish i could stay longer', Dad says 'I'll ask your mother about it', son says 'Can't you call her now...'

That's all it had to be. Dealing with the situation as I stated above, by writing to Dad explaining things from your perspective and looking for positive ways to move forward on this issue is far more appropriate than rushing to the sol saying look at what he's doimg to us now! Copy the letter to the sols if you must, and definitely keep it for later.

Remember that any court order (don't know if you have one) simply states the minimum contact time with Dad, you can vary that by agreement. Dad rang to get your agreement. However it wasn't appropriate or an acceptable way/time to do it. Explain that to him in a reasonable way and give him the chance to see your side of it.

It is much better for your son if you can come to an agreement and see each otehr's point of view and think of your son's best interests rather than your own personal feelings.

Did your Ex eventually bring your son home last night btw?

Gilly

[ScruffyTeddy]

He did yes around 8pm. I just opened the door, said hi to ds and hello to him with no hint of how I was feeling, not the right time to discuss I think.

The trouble with this is that its been discussed over and over until im fed up with it. We have sat down and talked sensibly numerous times when I have explained to ex the reasons for one day only. When he first started seeing ds he was having him all weekend, ds was coming back upset. Then we agreed on one night only. Ds was coming back knackered after being up all night, hungry because if he didn't partiularly like what they were cooking he had nowt or ate crisps all day, and grumpy..walking in the house at 9pm on Saturday night and going straight to bed.

Ex doesn't understand and says im being difficult, after all, I have him all week dont I? I suggested one night in the week for tea and after grumbling that he wasn't going to the trouble of picking him up if it was only going to be for a couple of hours, he grudgingly agreed and then proceeded to let ds down, forget he was picking him up or giving me every excuse he could think of "oh we have to go shopping" "oh I have to do something for my mate" at the last minute.

Ex wont have ds on a Saturday night instead because xxxx (his gf's child) sees his dad on a Saturday and wont be there? What that has to do with it I dont know .

We have never formally agreed anything through a solicitor, maybe it would be a good thing!

[gillybean2]

Well that doesn't make sense. Why did he want him to stay an extra night if he can only stay when the new g/f's son is with his dad on Saturday?

I am sorry that he let your son down on the mid week contact. A lot of NRP like the idea of extra time, but don't take on the responsibilty that comes with it. From the sounds of it you discussed it, but didn't follow up with written confirmation. So no 'proof' of the arrangements or that he was letting your son down by not sticking to them. Also if you pick up his pieces when he doesn't meet it (he should get his mum, sister, g/f to collect if he can't make it in his contact time) then he knows it's ok by you to let your son down because you'll just deal with it instead of making him take responsibilty. No-one would like to have their child left at school after being let down, so i do understand why you jump in. But who has to jump in when you have to work late or have a course, or are ill? You have to sort it out, just like he does in his time.

If he argues that you see your son all week, then point him back at his own comment, that it's hardly worth it for a couple of hours after school. Because in reality you get home from work, the kids do their home work, you cook dinner and then it's bath and bed time. That is why weekend time is important for you too, to have that quality of time together.

My advice would be to write re the not discussing in front of the children and no ad hoc changes on the day. Also state that you are happy for the occassional additional overnight, but it must be agreed at least 14 days in advance. Remind him why you changed the arrangements and that you want quality weekend time too. Also restate what the currently agreed times are and that if he is held up and will be later than this you would appreciate a text message or phone call as soon as is possible to put your mind at rest. Perhaps say that if he can not bring your son back at the agreed time you will have to look at making more formal arrangements. Sols cost teh earth though, are you prepared to do it yourself with the help of a MK if it comes to court? If not don't make empty threats becuase he might just test you on them.

If he really can't see your point of view after you take the time to write and explain it to him perhaps a couple of session with a mediator might help you both be able to put your point accross and come to a solution with an impartial third party to speak too. You'll probably have to pay for it if you are working, but a little expense might be worth it if you can get this sorted out amicably, and is far cheaper than the legal route in the long run. Remember too that a letter can be shown to his new g/f, mother etc who can see you are being resonable and might just talk him round to seeing your point of view. Word of mouth repeating of his version of what you said is easy to make you out to be the bad guy to his friends and family. I would always advocate writing, and get advice on any letter for content and nutrality before you deliver it.

Hope you have a good sunday with your son and daughter today
best of luck
Gilly