Is this manipulation or am I being paranoid?

[pinguthepenguin]

I've recently returned to work after mat leave. Since then I've asked exp to take baby one night in the week as well as his usual 1 day at weekend. This counts as 2 overnights in essence, but the accumulatively, its around 36 hours in the entire week, due to pick ups/drop offs etc.

Going back to work ( full time) has been a new lease of life for me, a true life saver. Iwas extremely low when he left, but really feel fine now. I'm socialising again (every weekend when baby is with him) and when he has her during the week, I'm able to do housework/paperwork and generally the things you find it hard to do with an infant around.

He came to the house on the weekend to collect her and immediately announced that he didn't think I was 'spending enough time with her these days'. I couldn't believe it. He went on to say that I wasn't spending quality time with her, as she was with the childminder all week, then with him for 24 hour period over the weekend, and so therefore, he actually was seeing her more than I was.

Is this true? or is he trying to make me feel bad?

To my mind, his life is still his own for 85% of the time, while mine isn't. He brings her back on a sunday, and she doesn't even have to cross his mind again til thursday. He is going skiing at the end of the month for a week, he does what he likes. The man left us for another woman, a woman who's house he now takes our infant to sleep in EVERY weekend, therefore rarely being alone with her.

I think he has seen me getting on with my life and is a bothered by it. He may be also resenting having to actually share the 'parenting, now I'm back at work, as opposed to just 'seeing her'. He still has it damn easy by comparison.

I think he was trying to 'plant a seed', as it were, that I'm neglecting her, so that I'll insist on keeping her with me more often, thereby relieving him of his duty guilt free. It got to me, big time.

I feel really annoyed, because this kind of head-fuckery is what I tolerated for 3 years. The kind where he rarely insulted you directly...but got inside your head in other ways.

Am I over-reacting, or has he attempted to mess my head up?

[mistressmiggins]

what does he expect you to do?
you have to keep a roof over your head.
is he going to pay you to stay at home & look after your child - I doubt it

I dont think you're over-reacting at all.
Try to ignore him - easier said than done.

well done you for going back to work to provide for your child.

[hecate]

By even giving this the time of day, he has done what you think he has set out to do.

Don't even let yourself start adding hours up and comparing! Why are you doing that? Do you feel you have the balance right? If so, put what he said out of your mind. Do what you feel is right and don't give him a thought.

You need to gather a collection of responses to comments like this, that you practise and have ready to trot out at him.

Number one being "fuck you, numbnuts."

[TotalChaos]

what Hecate said. even down to the fuck you response

[hecate]

good point MM! Pingu, you could always say "Oh, it would be LOVELY to be a SAHM, so you'll pay for me to do that will you? I'll need £1500 a month. Ta v much."

[hecate]

TC, Always rely on me. An insult for every occasion!

[colditz]

next time you see him, say "You were right. I have withdrawn her frokm the child minder and now she goes 4 days a week - of course, as I am working, and you have said how important it is that she spends time with her parents, you will have to care for her. Unless you'd like me to work a four day week and you make up the shortfall in my wages - as I am sure you understand, it's very difficult to be a single parent when it's not a choice you made yourself."

[mistressmiggins]

I find it so annoying!
I am fortunate (at the moment) to be able to support my 2 DCs while only working 3 days a week.
Yes I get maintenance from exH but I get 0% physical help as he chose to move 5 mins from his job & therefore 3 hrs away from us

he regularly asks me why DS has to have swimming lessons on a Sat - BECAUSE I WORK and so cant take him to after school lessons

am thinking of working 4 days a week but shorter days so that life is "easier" but school holidays will be harder to cover.

This school yr my ex is kindly covering 3 out of the 14 weeks holiday and paying naff all towards holiday clubs

[pinguthepenguin]

He would never consider giving me more oney and to be honest- I'm not the SAHM type. ( I know I should say I'd love to, but sorry- it's not for me)

No- The problem here, is that he probably sees me getting on with life. He knows I'm a sociable person ( he isn't- AT ALL) and I've a started going out again- have even been on a date! I'm only in my 20's and feel fully entitled to a life- so why do I feel guilty?

You're right- has has acheived what he set out to do.

[pinguthepenguin]

Could someone tell me whats reasonable, just so I ahve it clear in my mind.

If you were working full time, would you consider it wrong to want him to have your child for a full 24 hours on a weekend, and once during the week ( only from 6pm, til 7.30am next morn)?

Originally, he wanted to see the baby only when I was at work, therefore it was the childminder who was getting the break, not me. I insisted that he have her at the weekend as well, so that I would have some respite.

Is this wrong?. It doesn't feel as if it is, and to be honest, I relish the freedom, but I'd like to know your thoughts nonetheless.

[lostandlonely]

wellthe week contacat is nothing as she prob goes to bed the wakes up.... so he spends very little time with her...
so it is right he has weekend contact

my ex is crapola to. only has dd after school from 3.00 then back to school next day. once a week, he tells me the day he wants her to fit in with his shifts...

so i get no life

[clouded]

Pingu I've read your story on various threads and have felt so very very angry on your behalf. I have admired the civilised way you have dealt with your exh. Beyond me I fear!

You don't think he is wanting to build up a case for having residence of your dd do you? Might he have a fantasy of a lovely family with his new gf?

I might be completely wrong here and he may just want to bully you and, as you suggest, dip in and out of child care himself without too much responsibility.

If you can ignore him and try to have as little contact as possible. Can anyone else help with the w/e handover? It seems he uses any opportunity to demoralise you.
You are doing marvelously. Keep strong!

[pinguthepenguin]

Clouded

Thanks for the lovely post. The thing I despise most about this man is the sneaky under-handed way he conducts himself. Always with the minimum of fuss, and practially whispered in your ear. He is a classic passive-aggressive.

Someone else once mentioned the idea of shared residency to me. He is possessive over her, but usually only when he thinks he is within earshot of certain people he wished to create an impression with. Prior to my return to work (which I might add, was only 3 weeks ago), he was able to see her when he wanted. I let him call the shots entirely as I felt it fair, given that I'd no work commitments. It's different now that I'm back at work, as I'm socialising again too, and I'd like him to have her more. He takes the baby to stay at his gf's house whenever he has her at the weekend, so I find it incredulous that he speaks to me about 'quality time'. He is also going skiing for a week at end of the month with gf, and left me to organise alternative childcare in place of him.

Irony is completely lost on him and I feel so pissed off that he can reduce me to this, still after this time. He is really quite an awful man.

[pinguthepenguin]

also- there isn't anyone else to do the handover. I've no family to hand, and he knows this, but isn't concerned.
I wish I never had to see him again, although I'm trying to keep it all civilised for DD's sake. I manage it for the most part- even exchanged xmas presents etc, but it's difficult. H

[clouded]

Oh, he'll continue to piss you off or a long time yet,I fear, Pingu! Be prepared...

You want to be fair and reasonable and he goes out of his way to suggest you are not being, which throws you and makes you question yourself. I recognise this.

HE has not been fair and reasonable. Remember this.

You could have behaved very badly indeed and still could re contact. But you didn't/don't. Does he have any idea what it is like for you to let his gf share your little dd?

Ignore him if you can.

[skyatnight]

Hi Pingu.
I read some of your other threads.
Considering what you have been through, you are doing amazingly well. You are so strong. It's taken me three years to get to the point where you are after six months.

As others have implied, this is going to be a 'cold war' - it's just the beginning and you have years ahead. Hopefully, things will settle down in time but it's best to plan for the worst and then you will be prepared.

It is reasonable for you to ask him to have your dd mid-week as well as one day at the weekend. Surely he was the one who was making out that he wanted to be fully involved; the one who wants to tell YOU how to parent her (even though he broke up the home)? If this is so, he is now contradicting himself by complaining about an opportunity to see her more often. As you say, he takes your dd to his gf at the weekends so is hardly giving dd his full attention then.

As you have guessed, he is only trying to make you feel bad because he can't stand the fact that you haven't fallen apart after he left and that you are getting on with your life: work, social life and being a good mother. He wants you weak and isolated and dependent (and preferably depressed and feeling sad and guilty and in the wrong!) so that he knows he has power over you and can make you do what he wants. And he wants to appear to be the engaged, concerned, responsible parent while actually having the life of a care-free singleton (and making out that you are neglecting dd!).

Stuff him! (or stronger words to that effect)

You have behaved and are behaving reasonably. It is good for you to be at work and will benefit your dd over time. He chose to leave so he is in no position to tell you what to do and he shouldn't be surprised if you try to make an independent life for yourself.

I expect he is acting instinctively but it is all about control. Hence the passive-aggressive behaviour. (Maybe things aren't going so well with the gf?!) You are well rid of him.

I would explain to him that you offered him the extra evening in the week because you thought he would welcome more time with his daughter. If he doesn't want to see dd more that is a shame but you understand if he feels he has to prioritise his leisure time and the gf over his dd (!)(and you and dd will manage fine. Pretend you don't care.)

I wouldn't mention anything about it giving you time to catch up on things so that, when she is with you, you can give her your undivided attention. This may be true and perfectly reasonable but he won't want to help you and will make out that you are struggling and use it against you.

It is possible that he would like to have dd living with him or shared residency - who knows - but, either way, it is best not to give him any ammunition. You may decide that you would prefer shared residency but it will only happen if he thinks it is his idea and mentions it first.

It is tough having to be responsible for a child 24/7. My dd's father is absent and I have no family nearby so I rarely get a break. But, it has its advantages.

You want your ex to see his dd but, if he chooses not to, he can't complain if he gets less of a say in things. The less he can interfere, the more freedom you have to do things your way. It is his choice but he can't have it both ways. If he agrees to have her mid-week, you get a break. If he refuses, then you throw it back in his face next time he tries to interfere.

At the moment (possibly indefinitely), he will not want to do anything that helps you. You could try reverse psychology? Might be too late for this one but you could try on another issue?

Long term, if you do need more support, you have the option of moving back to where your parents are. But you may not want to do this and he will say you have taken her away from him. Otherwise, it is important to develop a network of friends who can and will help you out if you need a break or have to get some paperwork done - other parents, childminders, neighbours, friends, flexible nurseries, holiday clubs, baby sitters.

Yes, he should help you more with dd rather than play-acting at being a father. Sadly, you can't make him. Nobody can. He has shown a lot of interest so far in dd (particularly in front of his gf and his family) because it helped him to try and hide the fact that he ran away from being a real father. His interest in her may wane over time, sadly. No doubt he will blame you for this if it happens...

He wants to have his cake and eat it. He will probably get away with it most of the time but you would want to make sure he doesn't also get away with making out it was your choice/fault.

I know how difficult and perverse it feels to be petty and macchiavellian and passive-aggressive, when your nature is to be honest and straightforward, but, sometimes, the only thing you can do is to fight like with like. You have to try and keep the enemy confused!

[madamez]

He's a knob and you are a great parent. DOn't let him stress you out.

[colditz]

skyatnight makes some good points.

[clouded]

Yes, skyatnight, excellent points.
You've picked up on and expressed so many of the subtle changes going on.

Pingu I agree with SAN that long term it would be helpful to build up a network of support so that each time he swans off you have a fall back position. This won't happen overnight, of course, but good to aim for it.

Keep strong!

[shelleylou]

You have your daughter everyight when you get back from work mornings and on a sunday, Your spending the quality time with er bathtime etc. Dont let him play his mind games with you once he realises they dont work hell give up and feel very annoyed (added bonus for you) Carry on doing what you are.

[pinguthepenguin]

Thank you all for your replies. Skyatnight- lovely to see you back- your posts are always spot on, so thanks alot.

I feel full of dread tbh, when I hear you girls speak of a 'cold war', that could go on for years. You speak sense though, and what I need to learn, are strategies for dealing with him.

xxx

[skyatnight]

Pingu, good to see you too.

Hopefully, things with your ex will settle down in time and it won't be a cold war (every situation is different).

Re. strategies for dealing with him:

It is a shock to find that you have been living with, and had a child with, a stranger. It takes time to adjust and to get it into your head.

Head-fuckery is insidious and soul-destroying but leopards don't change their spots.

You have realised that getting angry is useless. He will just walk away, ignore you, cancel access visits, be difficult about maintenance, throw it back in your face at the next opportunity.

If you want to get the best out of him, you could try subtly pandering to and flattering his ego but you know, from experience, that the results probably won't be worth the effort. (And the dry-cleaning bill for the vomit stains might be expensive.)

No, the only tactic you can employ is complete emotional neutrality and giving him as little information about your life as possible (remember he did this to you when he left you for her?). This will irritate him a little bit and I think you are doing this already. The less he knows, the less he can manipulate. As ShelleyLou says, if you don't react to the mindgames, he will eventually give up.

For a tiny amount of satisfaction, you can also patronise him in a polite way (i.e. such that the face-value of your words can't be taken as offensive).

Disclaimer:
The author does not hate ALL men, she just picked one wrong'un. Any advice given herein should be taken within the context of the suffering and anguish which was caused by the afore-mentioned mistake and should not be interpreted as representative of her opinion of the male gender in its entirety.

[pinguthepenguin]

Sky,

I love your disclaimer. How many of us picked wrong'uns eh? You know, one of the most bizzare things I've learned form this experience, is that I over estimated myself .
Honestly- I always considered myself to be of fairly strong character, sociable, upfront and confident. I had my own home, good job etc.......

3 years into a relationship with (now) exp and I had no home, reduced my circle of friends, had a fraction of the confidence I once had, and most importantly- realised that common sense and intelligence have nothing to do with affairs of the heart and actually- I can fall foul of someone else's bad behaviour just as much as the next person. It's scary to realise it may happen again. It took me to the 28th year of my life to get 'swindled' as it were, by a guy, and I reckon I thought It wouldn't happen to me, that I wouldn't let it happen.

So there you have it. I over-estimated myself.



As always, I worship at the altar of Skyatnight's wisdom, which is pretty apt on this Ash Wednesday feast.

[skyatnight]

Thanks Pingu
Yes, I just picked a wrong'un (and/but it changed my life forever).

I know what you mean about over-estimating oneself.

I remember my aunt calling me (maternal figure as my mother passed away years ago) and asking if I was ok. She caught me at a weak moment and I burst into tears and said: 'No. I'm very sad and I feel totally humiliated.' That about sums it up. (She and my uncle drove half way across the country the next day, made me change out of my pyjamas, and dragged me out to lunch!)

If, like me, you thought that you had waited to find the right person to have a child with, it is devastating to your self-esteem to realise how poor your judgement is/was. For me, in retrospect, it is possible to see that the signs were there but I just disregarded them because they didn't fit with the rest of the picture. It's a hard lesson to learn.

It feels like awful humiliation but, over time, you realise that the right word is 'humbling'. I wasn't a smug, judgmental person before but I am even less so now because I realise that, yes, some of it is judgement but some of it is just luck - good or bad. 'There but for the grace of God...' and all that.

I read one of your earlier threads where you said that it's the rejection that is so hard to take. I think this is really insightful. It is hard to go from making joint decisions to being the one with no control. It is hard to go from being the apparent 'apple' of his eye to being nothing to him. But it just shows that it was an illusion all along. Once you can accept this, I think it is easier to adjust. It's not him I want but who he was pretending to be.

It's still really upsetting, humiliating and humbling, and you are left with the more-or-less sole responsibility for (a) child(ren) (daunting) BUT you haven't really lost anything. As my dd has grown, I have realised that it was all worth it because it gave me her. And she is not him, she is a totally unique individual.

It doesn't matter what the world at large thinks (Daily Mail readers?) because being a single mother weeds out all the phony, smug, narrow-minded people and leaves you with all the caring genuine people. (The ones who are either naturally lovely or who have had enough life experience to have gained wisdom.) Quite a bonus!

[pinguthepenguin]

I wish I knew you in RL sky- you sound like my kinda gal'

[skyatnight]

Thanks Pingu, I expect we would get on well. Kindred spirits .