Anyone worked out a deal with an ex who's left the country?

[nooka]

dh and I split about 18mths ago (long story involving him having an affair, spending most of our money on his own business which turned out to be a hobby so he could see mistress and other minor misdemeanors) he has now decided to emigrate to Canada (where coincidentally his now ex mistress lives). My dilemma is (apart from the fact that part of me would still like to work things out) that we have two children (now 6 and 7) and dh has this plan that they should go on his application and then spend half their lives in Canada (apparently it's much much better there than London where we currently live) aparently if they don't go on his application then it will take several years to get them into the country, so we can't leave things informal which is what I would prefer (he wanted to set out some plan of how things are going to be for the next ten years to go with his application). At present we have an informal shared custody thing going on where the kids live half the week with me and half the week with him. This works well because we live 5mins apart, share childcare etc. Obviously I don't want them to go at all, but he is otherwise a great dad and the children love him very much. I also don't want to have a fight if I can absolutely help it (I do recognise that this is probably inevitable). dh spent about a year part time and about a year when he was unemployed (he walked out of his job) so I am worried he could claim to have been the primary parent (the shared care has been since the split) and he has always thought he was the better parent. He says that he won't go if he can't have the kids and then he will "hate me for the rest of his life", and I really don't want our relationship to go toxic because of the impact on the kids. I guess what I'm after is some way of getting him to go without signing them away. I'm not completely averse to the idea of them living there at some point in the future as an option for them (although I know I would personally hate it) but not until they are older teenagers at least (he thinks that they should come out "once he's settled" or about a year/2 years after he goes, and then stay for four or five years before coming back here). He doesn't seem to be able to get his head around the fact that we are no longer a couple (his choice) and that we won't really be making decisions together or think the same thing about what's best for the children. For example he complained that apparently I think he is naive for thinking this would work - I should be more trusting! I know that you will all say I am mad for even considering saying yes to anything, but I don't want the children to suffer or to get caught in a nasty fight. Anyway, any advice or similar experiences would be very helpful for me to try and get my head around this.

[mamama]

Please get some legal advice.

I think it is important to know your rights and those of the children if they are on his visa. Is he guaranteed a visa? Does your ex have a job to go to? If he settles there, then he can apply for the kids to stay/ live with him when the time comes. It might take longer than if he did it now but would still be an option.

My situation is different but will involve exH & I living in different countries. He has a similar view to yours that, some time in the future, DS will go and stay/ live with him. I am very against this for many reasons which I won't go into now, but I do have some understanding of how you must feel...

From what you have said, I don't think your ex can count himself as the primary caregiver - it sounds like it is very much a joint thing.

There isn't much I can say to help really but I strongly suggest that you speak to either the CAB, who may not be able to help, or a solicitor who knows about emigration/ Canada.

Sorry I can't be more helpful.

[glitterfairy]

If the kids are happy and settled with your present arrangement then he is being selfish thinking about this in my opinion.

Why does he need to go to another country adn why does he think that he can have his cake by doing so and have everything his way? Toughen up I think here. Tell him that you are happy and so are the kids with the current plan and that he needs to give it some time.

[SSShakeTheChi]

FGS don't trust this man. He's already shown you that he isn't trustworthy. Honestly, don't trust him on this. You could really really regret it.

I really don't like the sound of all this. Where does he get off thinking he can uproot the kids (excuse me but they are also YOUR kids right?) and take them off to a jolly in Canada for 4-5 years and then send them back?

Look if you do that, you know they are NEVER coming back. Frankly it's obvious to me. Just don't do it that way. If he loves his kids so much, he can stick around them, can't he? If he wants to go off to Canada, he can make the effort to come back and see them as often as possible. Or he can earn some cash and pay for you all to go over in the holidays, instead of throwing away your joint income on some floozy, right? Why should you and the kids be torn apart because he's off on some other selfish whim now?

How is that going to affect your relationship to your kids and their relationship to you?

Definitely see a lawyer about this and be very careful what you sign. Sounds like a jerk to me and I do know it is difficult to break with the father of your dc in your mind but I hope you can come round to it one day. Look how little he considers your well-being (and the well-being of your dc) in all of this. It's nice to have a man around if he is reliable and kind and cares about how you feel.

[nooka]

Thanks guys. I know you are right (and everyone else I know tells me so too) but it is really hard not to think in a family orientated sort of way with my ex and be prepared for a bit of give and take. We have been together for 15 years, and I guess I have bad habits! I guess I'm hoping for some sort of solution that avoids a fight. Even his family can't understand what he is up to, and the most I have got out of him about why he wants to go there is that there is less traffic, the kids will get to go to school on a school bus and "the people are nicer"!

He is applying for permanent residency and planning to get a job when he gets there (apparently it's hard to get a job without residency, but not a problem to emigrate without a job). I guess the problem is that he knows that if he goes without the kids then the chances of them ever following him out there are pretty slim (at least I assume he knows this - you never quite know).

[SSShakeTheChi]

Is he expecting you to emigrate too then or does he just think the kids will manage fine leaving their mum behind?

[Tinkerbel5]

mmmm nooka, would you trust your husband to return them back to the uk after a visit to cananda ? if he couldnt bare being without his children that much then why is he emmigrating and choosing to be away from them for months at a time ?

I wouldnt involve your children in his arrangements, if he wants to go then thats up to him, but dont sign aything becaus he could use it against you in the future.

[lou33]

i agree with glitter

[Freckle]

Why do people insist that these men who decide to have affairs and leave their families are "great dads"?? If he was such a great dad, he wouldn't have turned their world upside down in the first place.

And now he's seeking to do it again for his own selfish purposes. I'm finding it hard to believe that you're even considering going along with his plans. He's flaky, has no job to go to, is following an ex-mistress across the Atlantic and you are considering letting your children go with him? Sorry, that's beyond my comprehension.

[nooka]

OK, perhaps I should have phrased that differently, he has always spent a lot of time with the children, and he has a very good relationship with them. That's probably more accurate I guess. And no I don't trust him at all when it comes down to it, and I do think he is being incredibly selfish. I guess I'm just putting my head in the sand because I really really don't want this to happen. I just can't see a good outcome whatever happens. If I refuse then if he may decide not to go and our relationship is shot, which could make it very hard for the kids, if I say yes then I will be petrified every time they go and visit that they won't come back. Really I'd like him to go and never see him again, but I think that the children would be incredibly upset. I am afraid that one part of me would just like things to be OK again, and making a stand now makes that completely impossible. He knows that I will not go to Canada with him He's planning on going to an area that sounds really depressing anyway - I can't see the appeal at all, and although I have asked him to take us all there and sell the place as a good place for the children what he has actually decided is to take the children, and I just found out that they will be staying with "ex" mistress . I am now actively looking for a solicitor with experience with emigration issues, but I still don't want to be in this situation.

[PollyLogos]

sadly, i think you are going to end up falling out whatever route you take...

Definitely get some legal advice. I would NOT sign anything myself that makes it appear that he has your permission to have the children in Canada permanently. The first visit they pay to him over there he could refuse to put them on a plane home and it looks legally as if you're OK with that.

[anothernametoday]

If you look at child abductions by a parent the majority of them are when the father takes child/ren for weekend/holiday and doesn't come back rather than the helicopter grab that my ex used to threaten me with.

REUNITE (google them) are an abduction specialist charity and will be able to advise you. Just call them and they will be able to advise you on visas etc and they have a list of solicitors with experience of these things.

I used a solicitor recommended by them and went through courts to get residence order and order preventing him taking x out of jurisdiction of England and Wales. Also against registry offices to stop them issuing him with birth certificate. He did try and get birth certificate so registry office contacted police. oooh but thats all another story.

My advice - get legal/specialist and advice, don't sign anything and don't trust him.

Good luck

[nooka]

Thanks anothernametoday, I will look at reunite. That's a great idea. I don't think that my ex would abduct the children, but I really don't want to be worrying about the possibility.