Living the French dream?

[beanstalk]

Just looking for opinions from any MNers who have moved to France. DP and I are more and more dissatisfied with life in the UK and keep talking about selling up and moving abroad and we keep discussing France. I think we are seduced by the idea of it - being able to live mortgage free in a sunnier climate, good simple food, more time together as a family, etc. It's very early in our discussions and we are planning on travelling in France this summer to check out areas. But what I really want to know is has anyone else moved to France hoping for a better quality of life and has it paid off? What is the reality of actually doing it, what are the positives and negatives of France vs England for children growing up? Any experiences or opinions welcome!

[jenpet]

Beanstalk we have been here for 4 years with DS1 (6), and another one due in August. Like all things, it depends what you want and what you would class as a "better" quality of life. It suits us very well and I would certainly not go back to the UK! We live in a village (Brittany) which was really important to me, as I wanted to integrate, DS1 started at the village school at 2 and half, there are 55 pupils there this year (highest number ever!) and the standard of schooling, even at 6, I cannot fault, he is totally bi-lingual of course too. I do a bit of voluntary teaching at the school, and run a gite, which I love. DH works freelance, and we still own a restaurant in the UK which tops up the income. This is really important as so many people love the lifestyle but cannot afford to stay here when the savings run out...we have a really interesting and fulfilling life, but you have to seek it out, we are also 10 minutes from the beaches which is fab in the summer obviously. Research your area well, and be prepared to do some odd things to integrate would be my main advice! Good luck with whatever you do...

[beanstalk]

Thanks jenpet. I'm intrigued - what odd things do you mean? Integrating is my main concern really, like you I would want a village where there was a small enough community to become part of it. Were you both fluent in French when you moved? Is it foolish to consider it if we are not fluent (just enough French to 'get by') in the hope that our language skills will improve quickly once there?

[Anna8888]

Beanstalk - I live in Paris, and I have been here for 16 years.

How are you planning on supporting yourselves in France?

[beanstalk]

16 years - I guess you like it then! What has your experience of moving to France been?
Paris is beautiful but not for us, we don't want to be in a city so thinking somewhere further south in a village or small market town.
DP can do freelance work from home, already has enough work to earn a regular (if modest) income, so he is considering giving up his job to do this anyway, wherever we end up living. We are lucky enough to have enough capital in our house to buy outright in France so think a modest income should be enough to live on. The whole idea is really being fuelled by our desire to simplify our lives, get out of London and the career ratrace, and find a culture that we feel happier with, focus more on family, etc etc. Just trying to establish if a move abroad is the best way to achieve all this.

[Anna8888]

Yes, generally if you sell up in London (and you aren't mortgaged to the hilt) you will be able to buy outright in France.

However, although the cost of housing is lower in France, the cost of living (food, bills etc) is pretty similar. And you will need to pay social security contributions here in order to get health insurance cover etc.

[ggglimhoho]

I am in sw france and have been here 8 years.

You need as much to live here as you would the uk - deduct mortgage obv from the equation. E§ven if the average salary is lower, you are coming from the uk and have uk aspirations and even living 'simply' will spend more (generalising here!) than a 'living simply' french family.

If your dh is self employed he will have to pay charges that add up fast - ss, etc. Taxes are relatively high too. Unauthorised overdrafts are actually illegal and can get you into big trouble - there is not the financial leeway here that there is in the UK and banks and admin are not user friendly.

Villages can be great or they can be xenophobic hell. Ditto expat communities.

You need to have workable french.

Having said all that, I could never go back to the uk.

[beanstalk]

I suppose I say modest in comparison to what he earns working for a London agency but it would still be a decent amount of money but I do need to research the tax situation, I was aware that taxes are high.

So what has been the best thing about moving to France, what makes it work for you?

[Othersideofthechannel]

My contribution on village life in France: I am in a village in northern France (pop 450) and everyone I have met was born within in a 20km radius or is married to someone born within a 20km radius. 4 of the families in the road (my neighbours either side, opposite and next door but one) are related. It is not a 'xenophobic hell' but everyone knows everyone and they are all busy with there existing friends and family so because of this it took a long time to become part of village life. A French friend in a neighbouring village who comes from the city of Lille (just over an hour away) says the same.

[Othersideofthechannel]

'their existing friends'

[jenpet]

"Thanks jenpet. I'm intrigued - what odd things do you mean?"
well one example was the 1st year we arrived and got involved with the "Noce Breton" which is a re-enacted Breton wedding to fundraise for the school, a huge meal, dancing etc, it was 38degrees by mid afternoon, over a thousand people attended (there are only 600 inhabitants in the whole village) all parents are expected to help, all weekend, which is fine, but I will always have this image in my mind of that 1st year - the lorries full of cattle to be cooked, the cauldrons bubbling away all afternoon, the number of people, the exhaustion! There are loads of examples, and you get used to things of course.
Agree also with ggglimhoho, it's tempting to mix just with other ex-pats because it's easier, but it's probably not the best way.
I had better French than DH, and we've both improved loads, with children you have to have a reasonable standard I think. What happens at parents evening otherwise??

[Othersideofthechannel]

Jenpet mentioned 'odd things' to integrate. Things would have been quicker for us if either of us had been into shooting at birds and having dogs retreive them or table tennis which are the two really big social things in our village.

[Othersideofthechannel]

Your village sounds a lot more interesting than ours Jenpet!

[beanstalk]

Yes I can see your point, Otherside, maybe depends on the size of the village? I suppose I had in mind a large village (!) or even small market town rather than a one-street type villlage, I definitely want to be near amenities rather than too rural.

[jenpet]

lol Otherside, the more I know the more I think we are pretty lucky! The cafe in the village here makes things easier for us too - poker tournements, environmental debates, live music at the weekend, organic veggie boxes, even a monthly english/french meal (we're the only brits here!)etc etc, it's quite a mix. Still plenty of "everyone knows everyone" too though...it depends what you want, as always....

[beanstalk]

This is all really interesting, and is just reinforcing your advice jenpet to research your area!

Our DD is only 13 months so schooling not yet an issue for her nor is language!

[jenpet]

What sort of area are you thinking of beanstalk?

[trulymadlydeeply]

I love living in France, but the finances are not easy - I'm currently working in the UK to keep the wolf from our French door. The taxes and social charges are high if you have your own business - I think the difficulties of earning a living is the single biggest cause of people returning to the UK.

I found when we first moved there that I lost my sense of self because my language wasn't bery good - it took me a long time to get over that.

Our life in France is simpler and more wholesome - we moved for all the reasons you cite, and had 3 small dcs. But it isn't always easy. We're FAR closer as a family, and as a teacher in the UK I'd say that French schooling is far more disciplined and rigorous than in the UK in many ways.

I'd hate to come back to England to live. Hate to.

[maltesers]

a question for Jenpet.. I too am thinking of relocating with partner and eight year old ds. my main concern is how would my ds cope with French school speaking barely any French. He has been sking every winter in the French alps since he was three, so that would be our main reason to be drawn to the French Alps. My partner has an apartment in Megeve and speaks very fluent French. I am about Olevel GCSE standard. So besides finding jobs how do you think an 8 yr old boy would get on in school ??? Hope you have some advice. Thanks !

[branflake81]

I don't think you should move anywhere to "escape" the UK, you should move somewhere because you want to live there.

I used to live in France (pre-kids). I spoke fluent French before I arrived and had a job and still found it quite hard going. It's vey enjoyable too but remember that everything is more challenging in a different country, especially if you don't speak the language. The highs are higher but the lows are lower too.

Personally, I really did not like the school system. I taught English there and thought the curriclum was very rigid, uninspiring and the teachers very strict.

I am paiting a very negative picture aren't I? I don't mean to - I love France and go back all the time. I just think you have to go in with your eyes open.

PS - othersideofthechannel - whereabouts do you live? I used to live about an hour from Lille.

[branflake81]

Also - remember the weather isn't great in the winter and whilst being stuck in teh French countryside may be idyllic in summer for a 15 year old in the depths of winter it could be quite boring.

[laidbackinengland]

Beanstalk - My Df moved to the Limosin about 5 years ago with his wife and 3 step children . He lives on a smallholding and had lots of dreams about being self sufficient et. But France is as expensive as England ( for most things). They moved out with rudimentary French - and the local Mayor arranged for them to have French Classes . The kids all now speak French fluently - but one of them has significant behavioural problems ( which may have emerged in the UK as well but might be linked to adjusting to such a different culture.)

The local people have been cautiously friendly. My dad and his wife have had to hugely diversify (despite hoping he would be able to live on his savings/freelance work) and he now gardens/cleans pools/breeds dogs and is an Eatate agent !! (if you want any advice.) Most of the English folk he knows out there have moved back - so I think go for it - but maybe rent first and don't get caught up in the romanticism !!

[Othersideofthechannel]

Branflake, I'm not far from St Omer in the Pas-de-Calais.

In my job I have hundreds of English speaking clients who have relocated to France. More stay than move back but those who stay tend to be:
retired
fluent in French
skilled in an area that permits them to work in English (eg trained boat crew in Cote D'Azur)
wealthy enough to buy a gite complex or hotel or similar business that permits decent income immediately
or have an income in the UK eg family live in France, breadwinner works in UK and returns for weekends.

Those who rely on not paying a mortgage and running a B+B plus odd jobs are more likely to return. Other common causes for return are divorce and death of spouse/partner.