Quick! Please tell me why I shouldn't pack my bags and dd and fly back to the UK

[SSSandy2]

OK seriously fed up with the school situation and everything here and wondering if I shouldn't just call it a day and pack up and leave.

You KNOW the feeling.

So, quick, please tell me all the bad things about living in the UK with children and about the schools and things there.

[SSSandy2]

that's the stuff pamina, I need to know that there are good schools etc, but I will NOT get a place in them and so on.

tmmj, come on now I'm sure there are lots of things that would make me regret leaving but I am THIS close to doing it at the moment, honestly I am!

[geekgirl]

SSSandy - just curious - why do you not go for one of the private schools in Berlin? I thought there were quite a few.

[Anna8888]

SSSandy2 - my sister nearly moved back to the UK from Spain last year (she ended up going to Amsterdam instead) and did the whole trying to get the children into school from abroad thing.

Go and visit some schools in England, in a place where you could live and work. Only then can you make your mind up whether they are better than what you have already got.

[SSSandy2]

gg I think I have really looked into EVERY option we have here. I've been visiting schools and asking questions for a long time now

Anna I'm thinking I will have to do just that -take her out of school for a while and just go the UK and have a good look around.

[frogs]

Truth is, SSSandy, you might well get a place in a good school in the UK as long as you're not after a standard entry point. Having just moved house and missed all the application dates, ds (8) has been offered 3 or 4 places I'd be quite happy with in addition to the one we accepted first (which I'm also v. happy with).

Not what you wanted to hear, but tis the truth.

[geekgirl]

are they not that appealing then? Why? (serious question because we keep idly wondering about moving to Germany but I have a sinking feeling re. schools and was wondering about the private or international ones)

[francagoestohollywood]

move to Exeter Sssandy. Primary schools are all lovely. Secondary are a completely different matter, but they could improve in the next few years. I've always thought that Germany would have been a good place to grow up, buth then it's all horses for courses, isn't it. I'm completely converted now, and i reckon that English primary school are on average lovely. Now, that we are moving back to Italy

[admylin]

Hi Sandy, you have to go and have a look. I just did all summer and saw that what I'd been planing from over here wasn't quite as easy to put into practise as I thought. Now I'm back trying to make the best of it ...you could try and get over there in October when we have half term as it might not be half term in UK and then you could go and visit schools.

[SSSandy2]

franca you are moving back to ITALY?! Seriously? Wow. Where to? When? Reveal all!

frogs, I've had some info sent over from various schools and it all LOOKS so much better but I don't know what the reality is IYSWIM - and I probably wouldn't know until dd had actually started school there.

[SSSandy2]

gg - I don't want to start a slag off German education thread... I met a couple here who are German, lived in London and seem very happy here with their situation. They send their ds to a state bilingual; however they will move him to the private international outside of Berlin for secondary next year. It's too far away from us so I never visited it and haven't considered it.

I think the problem is for me after the bullying episodes and the total disinterst of the school and their lack of any significant response to it which characterised dd's year 1 here, I am not going to send her to another German faith or otherwise standard school.

I expect the German privates to have the same approach to teaching which I also disliked because it was too alien for me - the copying down texts, dictation, the way maths is taught, the way the class is organised, the fact that teachers lose it and scream and so on and so on. No art, no fun activities, no project work, group work etc. You may take those things more in your stride or not have such a problem with them.

I might be more comfortable with the secondary schools here but I want a totally different approach to primary. The internationals are all not ideal, here at least.

There are some English private schools starting up but I don't like the compulsory long school day (8-4pm), they don't have proper school buildings or anything either - not the equivalent of a British independent school.

Any German specialist schools (music, art, bilingual) are all 8-4. In fact here in Berlin they are hoping to make most schools compulsory Ganztagsschulen.

Situation might be very different in other parts of Germany, dunno where you're considering moving to.

[admylin]

Could you not move down to Bavaria? They still have their kids coming out of school at 12 (starting at 7 some days too)!And they got the best national results in those tests.

[SSSandy2]

No thanks admylin! I'm sure the countryside is beautiful there and everything but imagine leaving dh here and moving somewhere else within Germany on my own!

Anyway this is about how awful English schools are and why I shouldn't try to get dd into one - not so much about Germany for a change


Not very convincing so far...

[SSSandy2]

And I for sure want a school that starts at 7 too admylin!

[SSSandy2]

actually geekgirl, it would depend a lot on your reasons for moving and your dc's age. I would think primary is nicer/better (!sorry but I think so) in the UK; however I think it's possible that the Gymnasia here are better than the average UK secondary school. I do like the way German teenagers work out on the whole.

Teenage German girls are really very sweet. I've always liked them.

I think the relative lack of elitism here and the affordability of things like music lessons, riding lessons and school trips and so on mean that they can have quite a nice life here. If you're not unemployed and scraping through but on an average income, you can probably afford to offer your dc more here,except perhaps in terms of accommodation - depends where you live.

[castille]

Oh SSSandy, I know how you feel, I've felt like that many times. Your children's education and happiness is the most important factor and if you're abroad and they are not happy, it can seem like going home is the quick-fix answer. In fact we did do just that - go home after a difficult first year at school with DD1. Enrolled her in a lovely nursery and watched her blossom in just a few weeks. We're back now and things are ok, but there are still times when I'm tempted...

I don't think that's what you wanted to hear either, but I am inclined to agree that primary school in the UK is far more friendly and fun than (what I have heard about) Germany, and France.

Could you realistically move back to the UK? Would your DH go too?

[SSSandy2]

No castille unfortunately, dh wouldn't come with us so for dd leaving will be hard, it won't be a happy move even if the school situation is a lot better.

[castille]

We lived in the UK for 2 years without DH. Educationally it was great, but it was really hard living day-to-day without Daddy. It put a massive strain on our marriage and our girls' relationship with him. Overall I'm glad we did it, but as you say, it isn't a happy situation for you all as a family.

Is there any chance your DH could join you sometime in the future? Is he German?

[chocchipcookie]

It's difficult to reply to this without knowing more backgd but I live overseas in the US and I've lived previously in France and i have expereince of both school systems and that in the UK.

So - is this also about you being unhappy in Germany? Are you at some level looking for a reason to go back? I'm not denying there are real problems for you in Germany and a history of bullying but how much of this is about you?

No school is perfect. Personally I would worry more about my ds being separated from her father than the length of the school day! She will adjust to that, it isn't that big a deal. I am sure you could find a school that would be 'good enough' for you and she would be happy in.

Also, it is hard to see your children go through a different system from the one we went through IMO. But just because it's different doesn't mean its worse. The US is more relaxed, less academic whereas France was rigid but both have their strengths. You may be looking through rose-tinted glasses at the UK system.

[francagoestohollywood]

I agree with chocchipcookie that no school is perfect. I had lots of anxieties related to ds starting school in England, and I believe that those anxieties were somehow linked to how I've always felt about my life here. I thought it was absurd to start formal education at four and a half and I was worried by the lack of dictations, copying text and differntly organized classes ! But it turned out to be great. I like the importance given to artworks, storytelling, planting in the garden and so on. Other things, it's true, don't convince me, but overall I'm very happy and I'm sad we are going to leave (and btw lots of teachers raise their voice in England as well, but we Italians are used to that!)
You've been sad about living in Germany for ages sssandy and i really hope you and your dh will come to an agreement, it's not fair for you

Our moving: dh has decided to take a gamble and has a teaching contract with a Milanese university. I'm ambivalent about the thing, I'm scared of the unknown, but then it might a good occasion for me to dig into all my anxieties and things .

[Anna8888]

SSSandy2 - is it really your daughter's schooling that is the only problem, or is that compounded by other issues you have about living in Germany?

Going back to England without your DH sounds very drastic and

I don't think my daughter's school here in Paris is perfect - but it has its good sides, and I will try to complete her education outside school, in the afternoons and holidays. I feel optimistic because I have other English girlfriends who share some of my feelings and together we can do the creative and narrative activities that our children won't be getting as a matter of course at school. Maybe you could try to find one or two other English mothers and do something similar in Berlin?

BTW, I was at WHSmith at rue de Rivoli this afternoon and its children book and DVD section is just fantastic. I don't know any bookshop in England that has such an amazing children's book section. Of course, WHSmith is terribly overpriced - but it gives me inspiration, and then I can turn to Amazon

[finknottle]

Hi there Sandy Haven't been around much lately.
I do so well understand the urge to flee. When we had all the kerfuffle with ds1 and I realised a)the shite system of determining university suitability of a child aged 10 after only 3 and a bit years of primary and b)there is no SEN provision here - I was fuming and outraged and considering moving the whole family back to England.
That said, I'm more settled here than you, I think, and despite dh's aggravating "I told you so" about the German system, I did have his support whereas you do seem to be struggling on your own. I did know a move was unfeasible, just v tempting.
Ds1 now has school from 7.40 till 4pm which is loooong and after 4 weeks he is still constantly shattered. Luckily he's 5 mins away by bike - most of his classmates have a train or bus journey on top of the school time. Fridays though are 7.40 till 11 and the fact that he has no homework is still a delight to him (and me). He's among the top in his class and has had better marks in the first tests than in the whole of primary so he's chuffed and he no longer comes home with that look on his face. Neither does he come down to me at night all pale and worried, nor go to school dreading the worst.
I know the two situations aren't parallel but he's now happier (if tired - and he's older of course) and what happens to him academically later is just not important now we decided.
Are you worried about the Gymnasium recommendation? If so, the school looks at "Lernverhalten" as well as marks. You need to find out more about the Berlin system and who has the final say, school or parents. Is it after Y4 too?
And as for England, one thought as Devil's Advocate; aside from the issue of leaving her dad, how will your dd feel if you do move back and then the school doesn't live up to your expectations? How many moves can you or dd make? May be better to leave any further change for the secondary level.
for you