Moving to Brussels - schools and so on

[Wonderdaddy]

Hi - new here and as the username suggests not a mum!

Starting in Brussels with a toddler (just coming up to two) over the next few months. I've followed the threads with the great advice from Portofino, Natation, and others and I'd really appreciate any thoughts on the following configuration of facts and wishful thinking:

• one of us working in the European district, other not working (to start with at least)
  
• may be able to get a place in a European school - not sure which one - but leaning at the moment towards enrolling ds in the Belgian system long-term
  
• One of us is good at French the other could get good. But mother tongue is English. I would be open to starting ds in the Dutch system but a bit concerned that our not having Dutch (initially) would make it hard for us to support him.
  
• have had a look around the south/east of Brussels and quite liked the stockel area and wsp - seems child-safe with good facilities and transport but not "city centre".
  
• house and garden rather than flat/apartment. Three may become four.
  
• long-term move, and my priority is finding somewhere to live where ds and dp have the best possible chance of integrating/meeting new people.
  

I've seen a lot of nice houses on the immoweb/immo.vlan sites but the same ones seem to be there a couple of months later so I haven't a great feel for what's on offer. Would not like to be spending more than ?1500pm on rent after negotiations etc.

Bit of a tall order obviously - not expecting a miracle answer but any thoughts or hints anyone might have would be great. We will have a little time before ds gets to the maternelle cycle I think but maybe the pressure on places is really high in the kind of areas I would like to live so... well any thoughts appreciated!

[natation]

I'd go for anywhere along metro lines 1 or 5 or tram lines 39 or 44 if you want French.

If you want Dutch, go and live in a Dutch majority area, Brussels in the east is over 90% French, not conducive to learning Dutch as the dutch medium schools are full of 90% French speakers. But you'll probably have to get used to the school staff not being allowed to speak English to you, many schools are very strict on this. Nearest Dutch area is Tervuren out east way.

Here's a nice house for 1600 and 4 beds, may manage to negotiate 1500 on it, I know who has just moved out of it, it's as big as you'll get in your budget. Rue Pierre Delacroix, 1150 WSP. On 44 tram line or on 36 bus directly to Schuman.
www.immoweb.be/fr/Rent.Estate.cfm?IdBien=3815338&xgallery=gallery&xpage=1


Another one near Stockel metro on line 1, 4 beds, 1500

www.immoweb.be/fr/Rent.Estate.cfm?IdBien=3779241&xgallery=gallery&xpage=1.


This is cheapest you'll get for 3 or 4 beds in WSP, it's 1300, garden is a bit of a compromise, otherwise very well located near schools, near rue au bois tram stop on line 39 or direct 26 bus to Schuman.

www.immoweb.be/fr/Rent.estate.cfm?idbien=3663286&ongletactif=2&jpgnameinp=3663286_1.jpg&xincludedetail=2&xgallery=gallery&mycurrent_section=Rent&xbg=N#onglet

The chance of an English place at European schools Uccle, Woluwe and Ixelles without siblings is very very very remote, it would 99% be Laeken which is a huge trek from east Brussels.

[natation]

PS in fact almost 2 before September means starting school at earliest in March 2013 in "acceuil" year and enrolments have already been done for that school year and you might not get a school place for next March, if you want it, because most places will be full. You'll get a school place in September 2013 in M1 school year if you apply at the right time.

[natation]

PS that middle house near Pl Dumon is overpriced, I'd say it should be 1300-1400, it's smaller than our house, has no garage, 3rd and 4th bedroom linked, the only thing it has over our house is location, still should be cheaper than 1500, another house a few streets away same size and 4 separate bedrooms went for 1400 a few weeks ago.

[Wonderdaddy]

Wow thanks for replying so soon. That first house looks perfect.
Re Laeken - appreciate the tip - I had just read their 2012/13 enrolment policy online and I was getting that impression but i wasnt sure. I haven't had a look around that part of Brussels for accommodation. I guess a lot of new arrivals will be exploring that option more as time goes by!

Bu the way, when you were saying that the enrolment is done for March 2013 did you mean for the European schools or for most schools in Brussels generally? Is there a more or less common timetable for accepting enrolment applications in Brussels?

I saw a lot of nice houses in 3080/3090 but I didn't get the sense there was much public transport out that direction unless the part of tervuren right beside the tram line? For quality of life I think taking a squeeze on the rent and staying near public transport would be better than (last resort which I hope to avoid) driving. I have some experience in driving in rush hour in different countries and the Brussels experience is special!

[Bonsoir]

I'd try to get your DS into the European School if one of you is working in one of the European institutions and you have a right to a place.

[natation]

I don't know the exact European school enrolment timetable, sounds like you'd find it quicker than me! I do know they find out which school around May time, as I know 2 children who found out this year in May 2013. But European school only has 1 year or maternelle - the cut-off dates is different to Belgian schools, I think the rule is you have to be 4 before September, someone will hopefull come along and clarify the exact cut-off and arrangements of maternelle at European school. In any case, with a 2 year old, European school won't be an option this school year. The number of maternelle places at European school is much less than primary places. Local schools are full of children at maternelle level who move on to European school. There is a sizeable proportion of children eligible for European school whose parents chose to keep their children in local schools in primaire level, especially if they are a minority language and the only section for their language is on the other side of Brussels an hour away by school bus - yes just imagine, children on school bus for 10 hours a week minimum, for children at European School Uccle, the school bus leaves at 6.45am from near our house for example, it's 75 minutes! If you choose to live near right Laeken school, then you're looking at perhaps a minimum 45 minutes commute to work at EU, if you choose to live out east in Stockel for example, you're looking at 20 minutes on metro to EU, but 1 hour minimum on the school bus to Laeken. You could live in between Laeken and EU area, ok so you'll be living in the most deprived area of Brussels!!!! So you can understand why many parents who could send their children to EU schools choose to keep them local, for purely logistical reasons.

Enrolments for local schools commence at some of them in September and are as a general rule finished by April the next year, some communal schools don't do enrolments till June, usually the ones which wouldn't be first choice though. But your almost 2 year old could start school in March 2013, the "acceuil" class usually accepts children all year long, once they turn 2 1/2, it depends on individual school. I know our children's school has filled slots for acceuil, starting at various times between September 2012 and latest starters will be May 2012. I do however know a couple of schools in the area of those houses in WSP which will still have places to start in March 2013. Many children do just "acceuil" class in one school, then change school the following September for M1 class onwards - acceuil places are less plentiful than M1, M2 and M3, so they go to whatever school had acceuil places, then swap.

Whilst waiting for a school place, WSP has 2 drop-in nurseries which are mornngs only and very very cheap, plus a drop-in mums and tots where parent stays. Plenty of SAHMs in the area, very multi-national and the dominant languages are English (many 2nd language of many nationalities), German and Spanish and things to to with pre-schoolers in all 3 languages. And for those English children aged 2 1/2 upwards in French or Dutch schools, plenty of after school activities in English.

3090 is Overijse - oh please don't live there, no public transport at all for EU area. It's the worst place for public transport, you'll need 2 cars. You don't need a car at all in WSP. Very limited things to do if you're a SAHM, whereas in WSP you are spoiled.

3080 is Tervuren, the central area of the town is connected by 44 tram to Montgomery and then metro to EU area. It's about 20 mins extra commute time from housing along the tram line. It's heavily English speaking dominated, not so multi-national, most children who are not Belgian go to German school, one of 3 British/English schools, few English children go to local Dutch schools, but if you want Dutch, this is one area I would recommend.

Another Dutch area which is commutable to the EU area is Hoeilaart, post code 1560 which has 2 trains an hour I think direct to Schuman staion under the Berlaymont, train takes 30 minutes. I think it's too far though and life for a SAHM out there is going to be very limiting.

For French, look at 1200 WSL, 1160 Auderghem, 1170 Watermael-Boitsfort, 1150 WSP, plus 2 places in Vlaams Brabant which are 80% French speaking with special status, 1950 Kraainem and 1970 Wezembeek-Oppem. You will find some parts of these latter 2 communes are actually in Stockel area and near to Stockel metro, or are on 39 tram route. You'd get a few more houses in budget in that area very near public transport. Don't even think about driving to work, take the metro or tram.

Here is a house way under budget. I am sure it's one we tried to rent last year but were beaten to it, it's quite compact but more than big enough for 3 or 4 even. It has a BIG garden, it's 5 minutes walk to Stockel metro, is has 3 excellent local schools nearby. IF it really is the house, the landlord is actually nice - he trusted his ex-tenant to arrange viewings and control looking for a new tenant, very few landlords have that sort of good relationship. If I was looking to save money, have a house in a fantastic area, have a big garden, I'd go for this one.

www.immoweb.be/fr/Rent.estate.cfm?idbien=3775805&ongletactif=2&jpgnameinp=3775805_3.jpg&xincludedetail=2&xgallery=gallery&mycurrent_section=Rent&xbg=N#onglet

BTW, just looked and quite a few houses under budget in 1950 and 1970.

[natation]

This one might be near Stockel metro.
www.immoweb.be/fr/Rent.Estate.cfm?IdBien=3723622&xgallery=gallery&xpage=1

[natation]

Just checked it seems if your child is born in 2010, your child can enter European School Brussels in September 2014, so that gives your child 1 1/2 school years if you want in a local school, March? 2013-June 2013 and September 2013-June 2014.

[Bonsoir]

There are normally two years of maternelle at European Schools, followed by five years of primary. Children normally need to be 4 to go to maternelle in a European school. There would, IMO, be a lot of advantages to sending your DCs to local maternelle so that they can learn the language of their local community before going to the European School where they learn in their own mother-tongue.

[Portofino]

Can't add much to what natation has written - she is the expert. However, please PM me if you want to be added to our private FB group and mailing list. There are lots of us in Brussels/suburbs and we meet up quite frequently so might be nice to see a friendly face when you first move and don't know a soul. Members have certainly helped out new movers on a practical level with houses/schools etc

[Wonderdaddy]

Thanks a million this really helps hugely. I like the idea of starting ds in local system and having some time to work out whether it makes sense to go the European school route later. I must do some more research obviously but one thing I've been picking up really strongly from these threads is that if we really want ds to have fluency in either French or Dutch and to be able to connect locally then immersion from the start is the best option... Wsp and around sounds perfect from the perspective of dp who wouldn't have a job initially.

[hoolaboola]

Has anyone any ideas on finding part-time jobs in Brussels? Recently moved due to husband's job.Speak French but not yet any Dutch.Ideally would love to find something in English & during school hours. Also thought about registering as self-employed but seems so complicated & costly...in a pickle. Would appreciate any ideas.probably looking for the impossible but would be grateful of any advice x

[natation]

hoolaboola, it's going to depend entirely upon your skills whether you'll find a job here. Quite a few people work in the black and do private lessons, but if you're ever caught, I would not want to be on the receiving end of actions taken. Do you have any teaching qualifications? BICS school are currently looking for teachers in secondary and also maternelle.

[natation]

PS plenty of part time jobs with BCT, but they are of course unpaid.

[hoolaboola]

Thanks for your reply. I imagine a proper degree in teaching is essential for the BICS jobs. I have a practical scientific background but no desire to continue my old job and trying to suss out the lie of the land. Would have the heebie jeebies at the thought of doing any work that is not legit...I'd be sure to get caught out.
In the middle of a TEFL course at the minute (enjoying it) as well as brushing up on IT skills...we'll see. Trawling job wesites & not seeing many part time jobs advertised. Any ideas?

[natation]

BICS can employ anyone they like, they are not recognized as a school, so they can set their own definition of "qualified". They did have an advert recently for a job as EFL teacher there.

For any of the international schools which are recognized as schools, they only employ people with recognized teaching qualifications for teaching positions.

Try getting work experience at one of the international schools, then you could try Kiddyclasses or Kids Computer Club or Tutti Frutti which have holiday stages for children learning English. I know Kiddyclasses employ people without any qualifications such as TEFL so long as they are experienced and competent.

There are few people working part time here, most families have 2 full time working parents (even when it's shared-care sole parents) in order to pay the bills, especially in Brussels.

[hoolaboola]

Thanks again for the info. Lots to think about. Need to get the ball rolling and see what turns up.

[Wonderdaddy]

Hi again - and thanks for all your help again, in particular to Natation who deserves a medal for answering so many PMs.
I'm now at the stage where I will be making a few trips and meeting agents/landlords in and around 1950/1970/1150/1200. Just wondering what the culture is generally - if you see a house you think is good, do you really need to sign up immediately or do you get a chance to "reserve" it for a few days while you finally make up your mind?
Where I come from the tenant/landlord relationship is very much a two-way one, and landlords would typically wait for tenants they liked. Do houses in this area tend to get taken more or less on first viewing? Especially if close to facilities?
Also wondering why so many houses which look good on immoweb/immovlan seem to be there a few weeks later?
Thanks again!

[Wonderdaddy]

Oh and I forgot - do I need a Belgian bank account before I can sign up for a rental?

[natation]

IF you hand over any money or put in writing with a signature that you are "reserving" a house, it means you are contractually obliged to take the house - that would cost 6 months rent at least to get out of, if it's a 9 year contract! So no there is no way of reserving a house, without it becoming a contractual obligation, you just have to hope a house doesn't go in the time you are making up your mind.

Some houses are advertised through estate agents, some are advertised by landlords directly. When you agree to rent a house and a landlord is involved, sometimes you may never meet the landlord personally (might be living abroad), sometimes you meet the landlord when you do an initial visit, sometimes you meet the landlord when you sign your contract. Personally I would not be comfortable with signing a contract or handing over money without meeting the landlord in person, plus I would always try and negotiate the rent and would want to do this directly with the landlord.


Landlords normally ask you to provide proof of income, a minimum of 2 or 3 months, or a work contract plus savings. It's during this time that a landlord might reject you, or the landlord might reject you when they have several candidates and they prefer one possible tenant to another.

At the moment, it's a tenant's market, many houses stay on the market for a long time. It depends on the price though, if a house is set with a super rental price, it might go within hours - we were the first and only viewers of our house and I'd already told the agent 2 hours after the advert went on Immoweb I'd probably be taking the property, all because I knew the street, the condition of the house and mostly because it was such a good price! Only the demeanor of the landlord might have put me off but he seems fine - he owns the shop across the road from me, keeps a spare key there, has come to fix the toilet and sink for free (no obligation), so I think I have one of those rare nice landlords, I put it down to him being Greek and not Belgian :-)

Some people never remove the adverts on Immoweb. You pay for a set number of weeks and the adverts can be edited / deleted, but some landlords / agents just don't do it.

No you don't have to have a Belgian bank account, but it could surely speed up the rental process - either you pay for a rental guarantee from your bank or you deposit the rental deposit (up to 2 months rent) in a blocked bank account at the branch where you have your own bank account - you get it back if lucky when you leave, with the signature of your landlord. You can open a Belgian bank account when still living abroad.

[Longtime]

Wonderdaddy, natation is a real gem. She has lots to keep her busy but always finds the time to inform whenever she can.

Good luck! (Oh and 1160 is an ok postcode too!)

[Wonderdaddy]

Hi again - I'm making progress now I think. It's getting detailed! I was wondering if anyone had any rough idea from their own experience what the typical monthly costs in Brussels would be for a house (let's say "medium" size) for:

• water
  
• gas
  
• electricity
  
• property tax (is there any and does tenant pay?)
  
• house insurance (does tenant pay?)
  
• waste/bin charges
  

Do house landlords ask for fixed monthly "charges" on top of rent - and if so do they cover any things I didn't already mention above?

[Wonderdaddy]

Oh I did add 1160 to the list!

[natation]

water = 40
gas + electricity = 200
property tax - landlord pays main tax, Brussels "household tax" about 100 euro PER YEAR, not certain exact price as we are exempt as we have 4 children
house insurance 25
waste bins = 1 blue / 1 yellow / 1 white per week, sorry I don't know the price of Brussels bin bags, at a guess 50 cent each??? The Kraainem + Wezembeek white ones are at least 5 times the price, in an attempt to get people to put more in the cheaper yellow / blue recycling bags.

Okay so out utility / insurance bills are ?265 a month. I must say we are very frugal on heating and water.

[natation]

2010 prices for Brussels bin bags, since I really have never sat down and calclulated the price, we have to buy them and they are the same price everywhere, so I just buy them! 1 blue / 1 yellow / 1 white should be enough for 3 people for a week.

www.brussels.be/dwnld/60997647/prix%20sacs%202010.pdf