Experts in copyright/intellectual property rights please gather round!

[amistillsexy]

Hi, I have a problem and Ihope some MNers will be able to help.
I will try to be brief!:

A friend of mine worked for a charity and devised a training course (let's call it 'Helping') which she ocassionally delivered to council workers.

The charity decided to expand their capacity and asked some members to join them in learning how to deliver 'Helping'. I went on this train the trainer course.

The charity decided if others were to run this training, it needed to be re-writen so it was simpler to follow.

A couple of others started to re-write but only got a short way. They devised the materials for one of the sessions, and another member devised another session.

I was asked to finish the re-write. I re-configured the session which the materials had been written for, still using their materials (internet sourced information collated in a table), and kept the other session in its entirety.

Everything else has been sourced, devised and planned from scratch, apart from the about half of the subject headings for each session, which were from the original.

I was not paid to do this work, it was a favour to the paid worker who originally devised the course.

The course has been delivered by me and another member about 5 times. It is very popular. The charity pays us a small rate to deliver it.

The paid worker has left the charity and we are setting up together as a Social Enterprise in the same field as the charity (which we feel no longer performs it's original function, hence the need for our social enterprise).

We have been asked to put in a bid to deliver training for the council. They want 'Helping'... The charity will be putting in a bid for this as well. If they win, they will ask me to deliver for them.

I want to take our bits of 'Helping' and use it in our bid.

I need to know if I have any rights to the course at all (without the bits done by others, of course!), and how can I secure these rights legally, before the charity get wind of this and get ready to fight (which they will!)

Thank you for reading this far. I didn't want to drip-feed and wanted to make sure you had all the facts!

[amistillsexy]

Bumping in the hope that slower traffic in the daytime will mean more people see this!

[BleatingRose]

Sorry- my gut feeling is 'Helping' belongs to the charity.

[amistillsexy]

Is that a legal gut feeling, Rose, or an ethical/moral gut feeling?

My dilemma is of an ethical nature (I like to think I live by a strong moral code), but I need to know the legal situation before I consider the ethical one...for reasons I can't give, the ethical question is very complicated!

So, I just need to know where I stand legally.

[prh47bridge]

I'm afraid there isn't an easy answer to that question.

The law is that copyright in a written work is initially owned by the creator of that work unless it was created by an employee in the course of their employment, in which case copyright belongs to the employer. The relevant Act does not define the terms "employee" or "in the course of employment", leaving it for the courts to sort out.

Your friend was clearly an employee so anything she created belongs to the charity. The position regarding anything you created depends on whether or not the courts would class you as an unpaid employee. If you were an employee copyright belongs to the charity. If you were acting as an independent contractor you own the copyright (assuming you didn't sign any documents assigning copyright to them and regardless of whether or not you were paid). Even if copyright does belong to you the courts may take the view that there was an implied license allowing the charity to make use of the material but that would not prevent you from also using it.

Then there is the stuff you finished for them based on work done by others. If the others were employees of the charity, the charity definitely owns the copyright in that material. However, you may own the copyright jointly with the charity depending on whether or not you were an employee. Also, if your contribution was clearly separate from the work you inherited the charity would own the original material but ownership of the new material would depend on whether or not you were an employee.

If some of the authors were not employees of the charity they are in the same position as you and may own the copyright of the material they created.

All of which highlights the importance of establishing ownership of copyright up front, before the copyright work is created.

You may get a clearer answer if you consult a solicitor who specialises in intellectual property law.

[MrAnchovy]

You need to be able to demonstracte that you have recreated your version of 'Helping' from the original sources plus work of you own.

[MrAnchovy]

Sorry, that was an answer from a commercial/practical PoV rather than addressing the complexities of intellectual property law (which IMHO are not well enough defined to give a 'correct' answer to any question).

[amistillsexy]

From what everyone has said, it would be difficult to proove any one person held the copyright, so I could have a fight on my hands if I tried to take it back. Likelwise, there seems no reason why I shouldn't make it part of my own offer, without going through the charity.

Thanks everyone. I have learned my lesson, and from now on will establish copyright from the outset!

[suebfg]

I would say that if you were not in the employment of the charity then unless there was something agreed in writing to the contrary, you own the IPR in works you have created. However, it appears from what you have said, that there is existing IPR in Helping that is owned by the charity or possibly others, and that you therefore don't have full ownership of Helping. IMO, you would need to obtain a licence from the charity/others to use their IPR - it is very messy.