What are the chances of securing a pupillage?

[TheRealMBJ]

I am qualified medical doctor but am currently a SAHM. I have always had an interest in the law and my mother is a solicitor (but is no longer working as such, she has become involved in editing if law texts) so I do have some idea of the work required once obtaining a senior status law degree.

I am looking into starting a OU LLB for the 2012/2013 academic year (DS WILL almost be 3 and DD 1). We live rurally but at a push within commutable distance of York.


Knowing that it is extremely competitive what are the chances of securing a pupillage at the end of my studies (2016/2017) ? And do you have some tips as to how to increase my chances.

[MOSagain]

watching with interest as DS1 is in his first year reading law and wants to become a barrister. I've tried to hint to him that he might have more chance of obtaining a training contract than a pupillage but you know what teenagers are like, they don't listen

Good luck to you TherealMBJ

[TheRealMBJ]

Thank you

It is very competitive, I know. And I don't have an 'in'

[MOSagain]

It might be worth you contacting local chambers to see if you can do a mini pupillage. DS did one a few years ago during the summer holidays and has done some work experience at a solicitors in the hope that it will help him further down the line when he is looking for a pupillage.

[TheRealMBJ]

Good idea.

[Collaborate]

They are (IME) like gold dust. Very very hard to get into chambers with a pupilage. A colleague of mine, after getting a good degree and awards from her bar finals, has just secured pupilage well over a year after passing her bar finals.

Also, there is some snobbery in the legal community, and you may find that a degree from the OU doesn't carry as much weight as a degree from elsewhere.

[Collaborate]

OTOH your medical qualification would be of interest to some. So many entering the profession have no real life experience so it may help you stand out from the crowd.

[TheRealMBJ]

That's sort of why I am posting here, to get an honest feel of what the real opinion is of a OU qualification.

I could maybe do a GDL in York but would have to wait longer to start that and wonder whether they are not just as derided.

[mumblechum1]

I was always of the gold dust persuasion until a friend of ds's came to stay at the weekend. He's doing Physics at Keble, Oxford (after getting 4A* at Alevel) and was invited along to a Bar dinner where two Heads of Chambers said they'd be interested in talking to him once he's graduated with a view to a possible pupillage after a conversion course. Apparently they're keen on physics graduates for some reason I couldn't fathom.

Maybe it's something to do with the white tie and Oxbridge aura

[youdidntseeme]

Are you intending to stay in your current location? If do then you may find the number Of pupillages you could apply for in any event may be tiny

[TheRealMBJ]

Well, ideally I would. We could move a bit around Yorkshire but ultimately DH would need to continue to work in current position to fund my retraining.

[MOSagain]

[mumblechum1]

MOS do you want to swap? Mine has his heart on going in the Army

[Thistledew]

How long have you been a SAHM for? What was your medical qualification?

Having other professional experience does sometimes help in getting pupillage, but depends on what you did and how recent was your last period of work.

As another poster has said, you may find an OU degree doesn't carry as much weight as does a good red brick uni. Unless you are likely to get a first, you may be better off just doing the GDL.

You would be unlikely to get a pupillage in a commercial or chancery set with an OU degree, but may have more luck in a criminal or general civil law set.

You would probably also need to get some relevant work experience- volunteering in a law centre is a good idea. Doing 5 or 6 mini pupillages is a good idea, and will help you select the right sort of set for you, but it is the minimum that any applicant will do so won't help you stand out.

There is also much talk of bringing in alternative business structures so that barristers and solicitors work more closely together. The structure of our legal system is likely to look very different by 2017. The solicitors' qualification is likely to be the most versatile of the two, unless you already have an established reputation.

The truth is that only around 25% of people who complete the bar course ever get a pupillage, and this is likely to reduce in the next few years if cuts to legal aid go ahead. You should be prepared for the fact that it is statistically unlikely that you will secure pupillage before starting the bar course, so should have a plan for how you will gain relevant professional legal experience whilst you keep applying.

My advice is that it is only worth going to the bar if that really is the only job you can see yourself happy doing. If there is anything else at all you would be happy doing- do that instead.

[MOSagain]

LOL at Mumblechum I tried to persuade mine to think about going into the army (intelligence) or MI5/6 as he has GCSEs/A levels in French and Arabic and has been learning mandarin for the past 2 years. For some reason he wasn't interested

[TheRealMBJ]

Thank you Thistle that is very helpful.

I have been home for 2 years now and wouldn't really want to go back to work full time until 2015/2016.

[TheRealMBJ]

Oh I have an MBBCh and completed half a registrarship in Acute Medicine

[Lilymaid]

Pupillages are like gold dust (depress yourself on TSR pupillage thread to find out). As a doctor, the OP has experience that would be of great interest to chambers specialising in medical negligence or personal injury - or any work involving pharmaceuticals. And the qualification demonstrates intellectual ability as well as hard work.

If you look at the academic credentials of new tenants on chambers websites you will see that the top chambers require the best firsts of the year (generally from Oxford/Cambridge) and experience in saving the world singlehandedly! Less prestigious chambers have practitioners with more varied qualifications and previous experience.

The OP needs to consider where she would practise as there are comparatively few chambers outside the major cities (and the majority are in London). She should contact a local chambers and see if they could offer her a mini pupillage. She should try to obtain as many mini pupillages as possible during her law studies and lots of advocacy experience.

As far as OU LLB v GDL is concerned, I think that a GDL is better thought of than an OU degree (and should take less time). That said, I'm not a barrister on a pupillage committee!

[Thistledew]

One good tip is to go on to the websites of various Chambers, most of which have brief CVs of their barristers. If you will be constrained geographically, look at the ones in your area, and see what backgrounds their newest recruits have. For example this set has chambers in York.

[FlangelinaBallerina]

Do the GDL. It's a shit, boring course, like doing 20 GCSEs in one year, so be prepared for that. You're probably good at learning lots of things by rote if you have a medicine degree, so that helps.

Chances of getting pupillage are low. Sorry, but they are.

I would strongly suggest playing to your strengths and look at clinical negligence type work. People with a medical background have a real advantage for that kind of work. I know Pannone, a solicitors firm in Manchester, certainly used to employ experienced nurses in their clinical negligence department, although I'm not sure what work they were actually doing. I know that's not quite what you were wanting to do, but it shows that there are medical people working in the legal profession.

[beeny]

I am in York Chambers.If you have any specific questions would be glad to help.I am in Easingwold.

[ScroobiousPip]

chances of a pupillage are low but as a qualified medic, there will be chambers specialising in medical negligence and the like who would probably be very interested in you. i'd say of anyone you probably have stronger odds than most if you are willing to specialise in that field. do a bit of internet research, call around and see if you can get some mini-pupillage experience.

when i was qualifying as a solicitor, there were a whole heap of doctors sponsored by the GMC (i think - it was some years ago!) doing the LPC. would that be of interest to you? i'm pretty sure they paid all the fees.

[MOSagain]

[TheRealMBJ]

Hmmm.... That's interesting Scroobious. Had not thought of going through the GMC. So can one do the LPC without a law background?

I would be interested in combining the two areas and looking at medical negligence work in particular.

Thank you beeny I'm still very much exploring the idea but will PM when I am more sure of what it is I'm considering.