Sale of the marital home

[missduff]

My DP split from his wife 2&1/2 years ago and at first she left him, said that she wasn't bothered about the house, didn't like it and left him struggling to pay the mortgage by himself and she rented a house of her own.

After about a year of him struggling with the bills he moved back in to his mum's and was renting the house out for considerably less than what he was paying on the mortgage.
When his ex wife heard how little he was renting it for she convinced him to rent it to her, well at first he said no but she served notice to the tenant herself and moved herself in, DP just went along with it.

He is now paying £850pcm on the mortgage and she pays him £450pcm, the rental income would normally be about £600pcm but he agreed to her paying him less rent as she said she would spend some money on it to increase its saleability. Personally I think it is more likely that she's just going to keep all the receipts for the work to claim more equity in the house.

The house is all in his name, she's not on the mortgage or the deeds but they were married so clearly she is entitled to some equity which DP isn't disputing.

There is also a loan which DP took out for home improvements, again this is just in his name.

We have recently found out that we are now expecting a baby so he needs to sell the house ASAP, he currently can't afford to contribute anything to me, I pay all the bills as all his wage goes on the mortgage, the loan and the child maintenance he pays her. So the house needs to go and he needs to pay off the loan with some of the equity, otherwise we are screwed and won't be able to afford the house we live in now just on my maternity pay.

My only concern is that his ex wife is going to make it difficult to sell the house, can she stop the sale of the house in any way?

Also as the loan which DP has was for home improvements can this be paid off out of the equity before it is split between them or does he have to pay that out of his half of the equity?

[bamboostalks]

You need to contact a solicitor asap. That is a very complex situation and there will be problems ahead.

[LaurieFairyCake]

Yes, she can delay it for about 2 years (what I was told by my solicitor when I got divorced) as you need to get a judge to force a sell order.

Yes, the loan can be repaid before the equity is split (the percentage of which can be determined by the judge if there is dispute).

He is quite rightly paying his half of the mortgage - he could easily move back in there if there was a spare room. They both have to pay the mortgage.

You are paying the same bills as before he moved in as you have your own place, right?

He does need a solicitor but it may turn out very expensive.

If I was him I would move back in to the house until it was sold - she may be more agreeable to sell quickly if he did.

[LaurieFairyCake]

He will get more of the equity though as he is paying more of the household bills (unless she earns considerably less?) as he is paying half the mortgage plus the loan.

[missduff]

He's happy to just split the equity down the middle, there's very little left now after the crash in the market so it's not really worth him fighting over it.

He's saying if she refuses to sell/move then he'll just stop paying the mortgage and the house get repossessed, to me that is a bit silly since there is still some (about 10k) equity left in it.

DP seems reluctant to see a solicitor as he thinks he knows what they'll tell him (typical male!)

I suppose the truth of her intentions will come out soon when he tells her he's putting the house on the market, she has said that she wants to sell but I'm not convinced, she's got a well cushty deal at the mo, nice 3 bed semi in a nice area for £450pcm, for what she's paying now she'd normally only get a 1 bed flat in a scummy area. And it's not as though she's going to get enough of a lump sum to put down as a deposit on a mortgage.

[LaurieFairyCake]

I think if they have to move to a scummy area then it will be a bad deal for her and her son

It's possible your DP is right though, there is zero point arguing about 10k equity - our joint solicitors fees in an amicable-ish divorce came to about 6k.

How much and how long has the loan left to go?

If he's paying 850 on the mortgage there's no point renting it if he will only get 600.

The only way he could 'save' money is by moving back in and not paying child support for his son as he could raise him too. But now your pregnant he will presumably need to support this child too in some way.

[missduff]

No the only option is to sell the house, he/we can't afford the house and he doesn't like/want the house.

He also needs the equity so he can pay the loan off as that's costing him nearly £200pcm.

He wants to live in my house, well he does but be will need money to pay the bills when I go on mat leave. My house is nice and I have a low mortgage and bills are low but not that low that my maternity pay will pay for everything.

It seems so unfair at the mo, despite them earning a similar wage he's totally broke and she's much better off cos she's got the kids living with her.

[bamboostalks]

Did not realise that they have children together. That makes it even more complex. Is he really prepared to make his children homeless?

[missduff]

The children won't be homeless, his ex wife earns a good income, he pays her decent maintenance, she doesn't have to pay for childcare or anything so there's no reason why she can't find a place.
They would never become homeless as they are always welcome to live with us.
She did have a council house but she gave it up move in to his house and apparently the plan was always that they were going to sell it. It would be different if he'd left the marital home and she'd always lived there.
So the other option is that he carries on paying the mortgage on that house and me, him, my son and our new baby become homeless??

[Collaborate]

Seen some shocking suggestions above - a bit divorced from reality.

He move back in when he's expecting OPs baby? Really????

His wife move in with OP?? Really really??????

The sad fact is that he should have dealt with this at the time of separation. It'll never sort itself out if he doesn't go and take some proper legal adivce. It needn't be a fight if everyone's reasonable and realistic.

[LaurieFairyCake]

My solicitor advised me to move back in to force a sale.

In the latest post from you OP are you saying she can afford to pay more of the mortgage? If so, maybe she can buy him out?

[missduff]

Yes she's not really got a problem with her finances, the trouble is for her to buy him out she'd need to apply for the whole mortgage by herself and the minimum deposit any mortgage lenders require at the mo is 15% but she doesn't have that, and there isn't 15% equity in it either so she couldn't get the mortgage on that basis either.
If she could get the mortgage then I'm sure DP would just let her have it for what is left on the mortgage but I can't see any way that she can and her parents aren't in a position to help her either.
Maybe if she didn't go out on the piss twice a week then she would have been able to save some money over the years, but hey this a whole other tale...

[RedHelenB]

It's not her problem that you decided to have another child, your dp needs to provide for the children of the marriage. Best solution would be for her to take over the mortgage but if that's not able to happen in all likelihood she will be able to remain there until her kids are older, especially if she can afford the mortgage payments. I think a judge would award her all equity & make it a provision that she takes your dp off the mortgage as sson as she can. I don't see that selling will actually help that much as there is no equity to speak of therefore it is unlikely a judge would order that.

[horsetowater]

I think missduff you are not considering that he has children by his ex wife and therefore he will be providing for them until they are 18, as he will provide for yours.

[missduff]

Yes he will always provide for them, but I have never known anybody to pay half the mortgage on the house which they live in??? Plus pay child maintenance.
Almost all his wage goes on the house and the loan attached to it and the child maintenance.
I don't think there is a judge in the land who would say that a man would need to pay virtually all his wage to keep his children, to the point where he can't afford anywhere to live himself.
Regardless of whether DP was with me or whether we were having a baby he would not be able to afford to carry on with the current arrangement.
He gives me nothing and won't be able to provide for his future child if he continues to pay as much as he does.
He would happily let her have the house and the equity in it but it isn't as simple as just transferring it to be in her name, she isn't even on the mortgage so she'd need to get a mortgage of her own which is unlikely with her poor credit rating and no deposit.
I was told that she was only entitled to stay in the house if she can prove that she can afford the mortgage by herself before any child maintenance is paid?

[missduff]

It's a shame that people feel it necessary to comment on matters that they quite clearly have no clue about like 'take his name off the mortgage'.
There's not even such thing as taking a name off the mortgage! The mortgage is HIS and she would need to get one of her own and buy the house off him.

[horsetowater]

sorry, only trying to help. If you want proper advice you will need to speak to a solicitor. You have to admit it's a bit of a complicated situation for the general public to answer correctly. If she's not entitled to a mortgage she won't get one. He can't afford to pay any longer so he will have to stop paying and his ex wife and kids will have to find somewhere else to live. He will still continue to pay maintenance. I'm not sure what magic answer you are expecting from us here.

[missduff]

My original question was just whether she would be able to stop the sale of the house if she wanted to.

DP is planning on speaking to her at weekend to tell her he plans to put it on the market, he'll then be able to tell from her reaction whether she's going to be difficult. He doesn't think she well as that has always been the plan but I'm not so sure.

It would be better if they can just come to an agreement themselves than running up expenses legal expenses when there is such little equity left, it's really not worth fighting over.

[Collaborate]

She will be able to prevent a sale.

[sneezecakesmum]

Any equity in the house will be swallowed up in legal bills so it is in their interest to come to an amicable agreement.

You are right in saying a judge would not expect an ex partner to pay ALL his salary to supporting his first family with no provision for his second.

Its an incredibly complicated mess and should never have been allowed to get to this stage where it is a no win situation from everyones point of view. Not a criticism of you missduff, just an observation that you are going to need proper legal advice at some point if the exW refuses to move out or allow the sale. Even if your DP stopped paying the mortgage and let it be repossessed, his DCs will be the losers and so will his credit rating.

Would he consider allowing the exW to keep what equity is in the house, minus his outstanding loan, then he only has to look towards paying maintainance to his DCs, and he would have some of his salary to pay towards your joint living expenses. At the moment that house is nothing but an albatross round his neck!!

[missduff]

Yes he's not really bothered about any cash and I think he's kind of resigned to the fact that he is probably going to be left with the loan, he just needs to not be paying the mortgage one way or another, it's like a noose around his neck.
I am also very worried about his credit rating, if he defaults on the mortgage then we'll probably never be able to get a joint mortgage down the line, one day we're going to want to move to a bigger place and that's going to be restricted if it's all in my name.
We will manage one way or another, it's just scary at the moment that I am expecting a baby and unsure of how we are going to support us all.

[sneezecakesmum]

It does sound the best option to let the ex sell the house and keep any profit, provided the loan you mention is taken out of that profit. They could get a legal agreement fairly cheaply to do this. It sounds the best option for your DP to be left without a house, but an intact credit history and a clean sheet for you and DB.

[missduff]

Yes that's all we want, a clean slate and ideally totally to be debt free and credit rating in tact.
I don't think she could really argue over that arrangement, it sounds pretty fair to me, at least she'd get a lump sum and a clean slate herself.
I think that's what he's going to suggest at weekend so fingers crossed she takes it well.
And then once all the finances have been sorted they can get a quick and cheap divorce and then we can get married next year

[olgaga]

I'm a bit confused by this. It's my understanding that the court will not issue a divorce where children are involved unless there is a formal agreement on parenting and a financial settlement which the court approves. I think you're trying to put the cart before the horse here.

He needs to see a divorce solicitor fast. It is likely they will recommended to attend mediation to see if they can reach agreement.

[missduff]

Hopefully they can come to an agreement between them, sell the house split the money and everybody is happy.
There is no issue over access to the children, this has been in place for over 2&1/2 years and everybody is happy with the arrangement.
As long as their finances have been sorted and they can prove that they have been seperated for more than 2 years then they can get divorced very quickly, easily and cheaply. Apparently it's just a matter of filling in some forms and turning up at an office in Liverpool. I know someone who has done this and also been told this by a Solicitor.

[sneezecakesmum]

If everybody is adult and can reach an amicable agreement, why bring in solicitors/courts/expense unnecessarily?

Yes you would need a written, signed agreement to take the outstanding loan out of the equity and any other potentially contentious issues in writing/signed (possibly witnessed?) but otherwise it can be managed with minimal expense.

If problems arise in the future re child maintenance or contact then thats when you need to get the legal profession/CSA involved. DIY divorce is also a possibility in the future.

Provided the paperwork is sound there should not be a problem.