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Legal matters

Need family law advice re DHs ex lying to prevent him having contact with his son, very long, sorry....

18 replies

Bignorkz · 18/12/2011 10:55

DH left his ex partner in early 2008, they have a 6 year old son. DH left due to the constant arguments taking place and his XP stopped him having contact with his DS, even reporting to the police incidents of Domestic Violence (all false) to help her case. It has been back and forth through solicitors/family courts ever since.

DH was awarded supervised contact in a contact centre in June 2008 which went really well, dispite him not having any contact with his DS for five months. However his XP insisted that this contact was making her son aggressive and he was soiling excessively, so yet again this contact was stopped.

It took another 18 months for my DH to get the courts to agree to anymore contact, due to reports required from CAFCASS, we managed to get unsupervised contact eventually every saturday for six hours (over a period of 8 weeks). The last week we had him (march this year) we took him to a children's theme park where we had a lovely day, DHs parents came with us as well. However the next week when we went to pick him up, XP didn't show and we learnt that she has accused my DH of kicking, punching and swearing at his DS supposedly in the middle of this theme park!

Contact was yet again stopped, whilst police, social services and CAFCASS became involved, interestingly we have never been contacted by the police or social services despite us and DHs parents being witnesses to prove this allegation is all lies. CAFCASS have worked with DS who keeps saying that DH "kicked punched and sweared at me" which is obviously what XP has been telling him to say, CAFCASS have even reported that DS appears to be "chanting" this statement.

Other agencies who have been involved include CAMHS ( Child/Adolescent Mental Health Services) who have done another report, they say DS doesn't appear to be missing his father ( well he's not going to is he, he's only seen him 12 times in the last four years, and XP is not explaining to DS who my DH actually is!)

The whole thing seems totally biased to her making up lies and I can't believe how she has fooled so many so called professionals who can't see what she is doing. I don't know how her solicitor sleeps at night tbh (he's even told ours that he doesn't believe her but he has to represent her!) In my opinion she is mentally abusing her son, I have written to social services to voice my concerns but they haven't even acknowledged my letter.

The best thing is that HER last XP has come forward to our solicitor to do a statement in our favour to confirm she is influencing DS to say things when officials come to do a report AND that she has a drink problem and often drink drives with DS in the car.

So far we have spent £15000 trying to get something sorted. She gets Legal Aid so has paid nothing. We are back in county court in January, so I'm just wondering if anyone on here has any experience of this mentality, what the outcome was, and although it pains me to say it, whether it's even worth carrying on as no one seems to be taking us seriously, and she'll just continue to keep making things up.

I really, really, really can't believe how none of the agencies involved can see what she's doing. It's quite easy to see how Baby P got overlooked......

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Riakin · 18/12/2011 14:10

Visit the legal eagle forums on WWW.dadtalk.co.uk

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STIDW · 18/12/2011 19:47

Not sure that you writing to social services was a good idea given they were already involved along with the police and CAFCASS. As far as court stipulations, orders and sanctions are concerned there is no "us" it is a matter between the two parents.

To "brainwash' even a child takes a great amount of skill or the child will show in ways or speech that it's not the child's own views or decisions but someone else's.

The courts are used to separated parents making allegations and counter allegations and without evidence and facts a judge will have difficulty choosing between two versions of the same "truth." The evidence of family, friends, treating professionals etc isn't considered impartial and the evidence from independent professionals carries more weight.

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cestlavielife · 18/12/2011 23:14

The poor boy.
But really it is out of your hands.
Your dh has a right to go to court for contact and he could self rep to keep costs down. Your views as his wife don't count I don't think tho if you show hostility or keep wrting to ss making allegations then then that could even count against him....

Only professional reports are going to hold any sway tho and your feelings/views to ss may be investigated by Ss (or not) but you have no control over that...

If your h presents as sane normal upstanding member of community then he just must keep trying to put himself across as loving father twho wants to have contact with his son and maybe state he is fully prepared to go thru contact centre again if that is what it takes...

I think you need to keep your allegations out of it and rely only on any police or professionals reports eg if she is caught for drunk driving that is evidence but hearsay is not....

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Bignorkz · 19/12/2011 23:55

I wrote to social services because I am a pharmacist and we have a code of ethics to adhere to re reporting child abuse (including emotional) which is what this woman is blatantly doing. I would have to do the same if I suspected a patient of mine was in the same situation. I was amazed that they hadn't even bothered to contact us to get our version of events with the seriousness of the allegations. A friend of mine who used to work in a Social Services dept in London says they are too understaffed to do their jobs properly. My MIL phoned them concerning the drink driving thing, (DSSs mum is also on heavy duty antidepressants that she shouldn't be drinking alcohol with) and was basically told that "if she wants to drink whilst taking the medication, this was up to her" - fills you with confidence that they're looking out for the best interest of the child, doesn't it.

The whole thing is so unfair to my DSS, what I don't want is IF we have to give up on this, him coming to us when he is 16 asking why his dad hasn't bothered about him which is completely untrue. Plus she'll be feeding him crap about how abusive his dad is and twisting his mind.

It's the legal system that will have let him down and so many other kids who's dads are kept out of their lives. Unfortunately it will mean my DSS will also miss out on having contact with his paternal grandparents and his baby half brother/sister too.

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Bignorkz · 20/12/2011 00:02

And you're right, there is no "us" when it comes to court orders etc.....apart from when they want to know the ins and outs of MY finances when making Legal Aid claims of course. Then they want me very much involved!!!

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cestlavielife · 20/12/2011 12:54

it is worth carrying on at court presenting facts and your h's desire to see his ds so your h can prove to ds when he 16 that he tried everything.

maybe in terms of reports to SS the reality is you are too clsoe and involved - whereas if a teacher of his reported something they might take more notice?

but, you, her xp...it is all too close isnt it? tho if CAMHS and CAFCASS already ninvolved then keep reporting facts, factually.

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RedHelenB · 24/12/2011 14:55

Keep at it & if she carries on the way she is you could well see dh being granted residency. Did any incident (telling off?) happen at the park?

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NotaDisneyMum · 24/12/2011 15:11

Bignorks it's crap, isn't it?

I can't advise on the legal side of things, as we're battling the system too - but I can recommend a book called Divorce Poison by Robert Warshak - which may give your DH some suggestions on how to remain a part of his DS's life and establish the groundwork now so he can rebuild a relationship with his son later in life Sad

My DP has regular contact with school and other professionals and he writes letters to his DD to coincide with the visitation schedule - he keeps copies in case she's not getting them Sad

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Tyr · 24/12/2011 15:21

Which agencies have been directed to report to the court ahead of the next hearing and have you seen their reports and recommendations yet?
Unfortunately, CAFCASS and S.S. do not have the training or skills to recognise coaching of a child and, where there is no obvious reason for what the child is saying, it may take the intervention of a child psychologist to get to the bottom of it.
Whatever you do, don't give up yet.

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Bignorkz · 24/12/2011 15:27

Thanks all...we'd love to carry on battling but like I said it really is getting beyond our financial means now, especially as we've got a Baby on the way in 2 weeks time! The next stage may be getting barristers involved which is gonna cost thousands according to our solicitor. Makes me mad if we didn't go to work we'd get Legal Aid and be able to carry on for as long as it takes. Trouble is if it gets sorted this time then what's to stop her coming out with some other allegation, then we're back to square one (I've always said I wouldn't put it past her to come out with some sexual abuse allegation, she really is that evil).

Redhelenb - no nothing like that! We had a great day, If anything my hubby is overprotective and won't let him do anything where there's a chance of him doing himself any damage - because we know what crap she'd come out with about us not looking after him properly!!

Notadisneymum - sorry to hear you've got a battle on your hands too. My DH has tried ringing DSSs school on several occasions but they never return his calls, he can never get to speak to his teacher, it's almost like they don't know how to handle it. Thanks for book recommendation, I'll have a look at that now.

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Bignorkz · 24/12/2011 15:35

Tyr - the latest one is from CAMHS, again another agency that has not bothered to contact us to get anything from our side, I don't understand how they can do a fair report if they don't take on board feelings from both sides. It basically said DSS seems "happy enough" and "doesn't appear to be missing his father". But my DH hasn't been part of his life for that long he is not going to be missed. Also his mum has had a fair few men since my DH, which she encourages DSS to call Dad (must also add that she has injunctions took out on three of them - you'd think that would set alarm bells ringing somewhere wouldn't you!)

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Tyr · 24/12/2011 17:10

What recommendations have been made to the court in respect of contact?

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NotaDisneyMum · 24/12/2011 17:27

Bignorkz - I just don't get how CAFCASS consider "not missing his father" to be a good thing.
How can that the fact that he is doing OK now be a good enough reason to deprive a child of his father for (possibly) the rest of his life Sad

My DSD has no contact with DP because of her mothers influence - and due to her age, the courts won't enforce contact; the assumption is that if DSD wants to see her Dad in the future, then she will choose to - but what if her Dad isn't there then and that choice is taken away from her ? Sad

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Bignorkz · 24/12/2011 23:22

It's not CAFCASS who've said that, that was in the CAMHS report. All these acronyms get confusing!!! CAFCASS have been the best of a bad bunch IMO.

We are in court again on 4th January, the CAFCASS officer recommends contact to be re-established as soon as poss, the last court date was adjourned as we were waiting for this latest report from CAMHS (Child/adolescent mental health services) because DSSs mum has mental health issues (which she blames on my DH of course) and I think it's her who have got them involved (to drag it out a bit more). It is now with county court (CAFCASS recommendation) rather than run of the mill family courts.

DSSs mum makes out DSS having contact with my DH makes DSS soil his underwear/bed and makes him aggressive towards her which is why the court wanted to see what the CAMHS report says. All things that nobody sees and everyone just takes her word for. She says DSSs behaviour and soiling improves when not in contact with my DH. But then she would say that wouldn't she! We had no problems with him being aggressive or toileting when he was in our care.

That day we picked DSS to go to the theme park he literally ran over to our car and she had to call him back for a kiss goodbye. I think that tipped her over the edge to see how excited DSS was to see his dad.......in this game she's playing she was "losing".

Notadisneymum - how old is your DSD? Has her mum used the false allegations card too?

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STIDW · 25/12/2011 11:44

I'm not sure why you think your husband isn't been taken seriously or that professionals have been fooled. In children cases there are often allegations and counter allegations that need to be investigated and unfortunately the process can take time. The only way for the court to establish if allegations are false or not is to determine the evidence and facts.

As I said a view or decision that is not a child's own but someone else's shows in ways or speech. Picking that up shouldn't be that difficult for someone trained and experienced in working with children. If CAFCASS have reported DS appears to be "chanting" a statement and recommended contact be re-established as soon as possible it sounds as though they have a good measure. In most cases the court accepts CAFCASS recommendations. Has the child actually expressed any hostility towards contact?

Children usually love their parents and if a family is separated they want to know and see both parents or are ambivalent. Depending on the other circumstances CAHMS saying the child isn't missing his father could help your husband's case. However the soiling and aggressiveness can't be discounted altogether, it may be that the conflict between parents causes the son stress which is only apparent when he goes home.

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NotaDisneyMum · 25/12/2011 14:19

STIDW it's frustrating when a RP is subject to a CO, which they breach, withholding contact for weeks or months, because of an allegation which may never even be investigated or not proven.
When a RP wants the NRP excluded from a DCs life, false allegations can achieve it, because in order to protect the DC, breaching the CO is accepted by the court.
When the RP is being supported by public funding, it is rarely possible for the falsely accused NRP to afford to clear their name in court - and the DC loses a loving parent as a result Sad

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Bignorkz · 25/12/2011 18:29

STIDW we have been fighting this case for nearly four years. I appreciate these things "take time" but whilst the courts are pandering to DSSs mum and taking all her (unproven) allegations seriously, and not even agreeing to supervised contact whilst they are "investigated" (if you can call it that!) DSS is missing out on months of contact with his father through no fault of his own. Why have the police not been to see us? Why have Social Services or CAMHS not asked to speak to my DH? So bloody frustrating when we know the truth...

The only hostility DSS is expressing is the "kicked punched and sweared at me" chant, which when asked for further info like where it happened or why it happened, he doesn't know what to say (she obviously hasn't fed him that bit of the lie to maintain the story..). Children may "usually love their parents" but DH has not been enough of a permanent fixture in DSSs memorable life for him to be loved/missed IYSWIM. Plus DSSs mum is not EXPLAINING to DSS who my DH and his grandparents are to him (that was left to CAFCASS when they did family tree work).

Notadisneymum - this is spot on, couldn't put it better myself.

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Bignorkz · 05/01/2012 13:29

Been back to court, DH has been granted access supervised by CAFCASS for an hour a week for the next 3 weeks, then back in court in feb to get back to the unsupervised stage where we were before! Until she comes up with another allegation of course.........

Best part is the contact will take place in Nottingham, which is 14 miles away from us and she's asked us to pay travel costs as she says can't afford it (she gets more money a month by the time shes got her benefits and CSA than my DH takes home working full time!) Takes the bloody piss. I said we'd hire her a limo!

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