SIL wants DH to sign his house over to her!

[Bogeyface]

Which is a) a major pisstake when she wont even acknowledge him in the street and b) imo a bad idea both financially and legally.

But I need confirmation of this to persuade DH we need to see a solicitor, he swings from saying he will do it just to shut them up, to saying he will just ignore their requests.

He bought the house 21 years ago and lived in it for 10 years
He had to move away so his sister moved into the house and rather than pay rent, paid the mortgage directly herself instead.
Mortgage, deeds etc are all in DHs name

As far as SIL and the rest of the family are concerned, as she has paid the mortgage for 11 years, the house is by rights hers and he should just sign it over to her. Now aside from the fact that this would effectively handing over his only asset, worth tens of thousands of pounds, legally isnt it a bit dodgy?

I have always understood it that if you give something like this, or a large sum of money and the person passes away with 7 years, then it is still taxed after death as if the person still owned it? So if, God forbid, anything happened to him I would be looking at a tax bill for thousands of pounds on a house that I wouldnt even own!

I suggested that we offer her two options. Either, he sells the house and splits the profit 52.5% /47.5% in her favour as that is the 11/10 year split. Or she buys him out for that amount.

This will not go down well with his family but as they have only contacted us over the last 3 years either about this issue or to slag us off, it wont make much difference. I am gobsmacked that they genuinely believe he will just give her this house, but that is a whole other thread!

Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated as we will struggle to afford a solicitor so if we could get as much info before we go then hopefully it wont cost as much in appointment times etc!

[jasper]

If she wants the house she needs to buy the house - at full market value.

That's what anyone else would have to do if they had rented a house for 11 years ( or 12 0r 20 or 100 years, it makes no difference.)

[catsareevil]

Who has paid for any work that has needed to be done on the house over the last 10 years?

[jasper]

"rather than pay rent, paid the mortgage directly herself"

Were the mortgage payments more. less, or about the same as the market rental?

[maybenow]

at the absolute MOST he might gift her half the equity (if there is equity) but he bought it, he paid some kind of deposit, he paid for the conveyancing, survey etc, and he paid TEN YEARS of the mortgage... NO WAY does it now belong to her.

[Debs75]

Legally I can't see her being 'owed' anything, I might be wrong though.
I gather dh doesn't live in the house but Sil does. If so then get dh to put in place a proper contract making her a tennant as that is really what she is.
Or if you want to piss them off more sell the house and use the proceeds to buy your house/pay off mortgage.
Eother way i think a solicitor is needed

[discrete]

I think you should really get advice on this. But I don't see why she is different from any other tenant, really.

[QuintessentialShadow]

You need legal advice. She has rented the house for 11 years. Being a tenant does not give you any ownership, even if you "pay the landlords mortgage".

[Bogeyface]

Thanks guys, thats what I thought.

Initially it was agreed that she would pay the mortgage (well below market value rent) and they would own the house together. But since the falling out his mother is demanding that he sign it over to her. Nothing was ever put in writing about shared ownership etc.

I see it that she was renting and as such has no rights over the place. But he wants to be fair, mainly for his niece who we both think the world of, which is why we would offer her the options I have laid out above. The money would pay off our mortgage and would tbh would make a massive difference to us, which is another reason why I dont think he should just give it up.

Its difficult because his mother is being really vile and alternating between emotional blackmail and spiteful bitchiness and I can totally understand why he just wants this over and done with :(

[jasper]

Based on what they AGREED your suggestion is overly generous.

Sell it and split the profits 50:50

His mother's vile behavior must NOT be allowed to cloud your judgement

[jasper]

when they agreed this, did they specify any details?

It sounds like quite an odd arrangement not to have thrashed out details. What if one of them needed their cash/share of the equity in a hurry? What if the sister wanted to move house? What if one wanted to sell and another did not?

Setting apart all the bad feelings since SIL moved into the house what did they actually AGREE upon?

[Bogeyface]

Thanks Jasper. My initial thought was 50/50 but he doesnt want to be accused of doing her out of anything, but they will do that anyway! The second, the absolute second that they realise he is not just going to hand it over, they will go absolutely crackers.

I am trying to get him to see that his mother shouldnt be allowed to do this, and he does agree but the way they have treated him has really hurt him, and the less he has to do with them the better as far as he is concerned.

[Bogeyface]

Imo Jasper, it was done very badly.

Basically it was all done on trust, which tbh was very foolish on SILs part, because she has no protection at all. We could put the house on the market tomorrow if we feel like it, and give her nothing. We wouldnt do that, but we could. Her name is on nothing, but they agreed to share ownership and split everything in the event the house was sold. As I said, it was all based on trust.

Its situations like this that prove that you should get everything done legally even between friends and family, infact especially then!

[TheOriginalFAB]

No point going over what was done wrong but you need to sort this now or things will get worse in the future.

Set up a proper contract for her to pay your DH proper market rate rent. Then he pays the mortgage. If she is not willing to do that then give her notice.

[Bogeyface]

That would be the ideal FAB, but she wants the house.

So she can have it but she will have to pay him his half share, or it will be sold. Things have gone on too long and I didnt realise that it was this flaky otherwise it would have been sorted long before now! And we need the money!

[TheOriginalFAB]

If she wants the house she has to pay for it. She has been rent for 10 years, not the mortgage. Now she needs to get a mortgage.

[mumblechum1]

Hmm, I'm not a property specialist but I think (and hopefully someone with expertise will come along soon), that there may be a trust here, as they specifically agreed that they had roughly equal rights notwithstanding what was on the Land Reg.

Under the Trusts of Land and Appointment of Trustees Act, the SIL could make an application for a declaration of trust and an order that the house is sold and she receives a share. Not sure whether the court could, as an alternative, order a transfer in exchange for a lump sum.

[NoMoreWasabi]

He needs legal advice. Given she has paid the mortgage direct for so many years she may well have a beneficial interest in the house.

[PrancingBuffalo]

Whatever you/your DH decides re the split, I'd be making it crystal clear that it's a gesture of goodwill, and if they fuck about or give you any grief, the offer will be withdrawn and she'll get nowt! If you're not going to sell atm, get a contract as per FAB's advice.

[joanofarchitrave]

Leave half of it to your niece with a life interest in it for your SIL, and keep the other half in your joint names, left to your dc after you. And get this all done in black and white (probably with masses of shouting involved) otherwise it will all go up in smoke/legal bills after you're gone anyway.

[Bogeyface]

He wants rid, and the only way is to sell it to her or sell it to someone else.

He will give her half of the equity, as he agreed that, even though she is trying to diddle him out of his half!

I think that we will ask the solicitor their opinion and instruct him to offer her the 2 options. The idea of keeping the house on is totally against what DH wants and I am inclined to agree with him.

There will be lots of shouting whatever happens as soon as it becomes clear that he isnt prepared to do exactly what they want, so the sooner we get rid of it the better.

[Tidybush]

I don't understand why your DH's family think he should just hand the house over when he paid the mortgage for the first 10 yrs.

Also, as has been said upthread who paid the deposit and conveyancing fees and who has been maintaining the house?

[droves]

Can you not sell the house then pay back sil the amount of money she had invested into the mortgage ?

For example £500 a month x12 = £6000 x 11 years would be £66,000.

If you think that's too much take of a little for "rent " or maintaining the house .
Suppose it depends on what the house is worth.

[droves]

But if sil agreed to pay mortgage directly Instead of the hassle of paying rent to dh (assuming shed have to send money to him , have rent book ect)

I think she's very clever ....that may have just gave her rights to a share of the house instead of none except usual tenants rights.

[Bogeyface]

Tidy because they cant get their heads around the possiblility that the world may not actually revolve around them and what they want! The fact that he said he needed to think about it sent his mother into orbit.

He paid the fees, he had a 100% mortgage (this was 20 years ago remember, you could get them then!) and there has been no major maintenance since he left. She has done the decorating etc but nothing has been done structurally or in a major way such as kitchen or bathroom for example. The house had alot of major stuff done (roof, guttering amongst others) when he lived there, so he paid.

Droves have just talked to him and he has agreed to 50/50 rather than the split I mentioned above, but he wont go lower than that. He knows they are acting unreasonably, but he wants to come out of this knowing that morally, he did the right thing by both them and us.

[warthog]

bogeyface, i think you have the right plan. and if you can restrict dealing with them through the solicitor, all the better.