School- outstanding payment for school trip

[madhattershouse]

I have put this in legal matters as the payment is for a term-time educational visit. The origional e-mail stated that it was a voluntary contribution but the we recieved this...

We do not appear to have received payment for your child to attend the school trip to on Tuesday 17th May. The amount outstanding is £, please bring this contribution to the school office by Monday 16th May.

If you are having difficulty paying please contact either myself or * to discuss the matter in confidence.

Why should we do this...it is a voluntary payment and they cannot refuse our dc's but I DON'T want to have to go "cap in hand" when they can't make those that can afford it pay!
Any ideas on whether this e-mail is legal..or is it just out-of-order??

[LawrieMarlow]

I don't think that the school can legally enforce payment.

But if no one made the voluntary payments then the trip could not go ahead. Are you able to afford the payment? Have you made payments for school trips before?

[alarkaspree]

You don't have to go 'cap in hand', but if you're unable or unwilling to pay you are going to have to tell the school that. Otherwise as far as they know you could have just forgotten or not got round to it. A huge proportion of parents probably need multiple reminders, you can't expect the school to happily assume the cost for them all.

[madhattershouse]

I have made payments before but my older dc has a trip that I can't afford..£250..I have made payments of £150 towards this and they accepted to cover the extra costs..fine. My problem is that,that was not a voluntary payment and this is! How can they state it is outstanding if it is voluntary??

[vj32]

Every trip is costed to cover a certain number of children not being able to pay. If parents refuse to pay or more than that cannot pay then the school has to fund the money elsewhere or cancel the trip. So they need to know if you are planning to pay or not.

[Goblinchild]

We've cancelled trips when we've not had enough people pay, and there has been outrage from parents who wanted it to go ahead.
What is the solution then?
Why don't you want to ask discreetly for the school to help you make the payment, do you want your child to go or not?

[OddBoots]

Did the original letter mention that they may have to cancel the trip if they do get payment from sufficient numbers? They have some money they can put towards the trip for non-paying parents but there is a limit to that, they will need to know if you don't intend to pay as they may have to cancel.

[Feenie]

You haven't been to see them to explain you have difficulty in paying, so they have sent you a reminder because they think you are a bit slack have forgotten. They aren't mind readers though - if you can't pay, go and tell them. Until you say one way or another, to them it is an outstanding payment.

[Feenie]

They have some money they can put towards the trip for non-paying parents

Really? How do you know that? We haven't - we're doing okay, but money is muchg, much tighter for schools and everyone else this year.

[Ormirian]

£250? Voluntary payment? Your school must have more money than
Ost if it can afford to sub that sort of money iME the 'voluntary oayments' are the £4.50 touch to the local museum not big expensive trips.

Of course you have to tell them. They can't guess that they need to come up with £100

[OddBoots]

Sorry, only based on my own experience, trips have been able to run with one or two parents unable/unwilling to pay but not if several don't, so either there is a (small) fund to help or the paying parents are being charged more than costs to pay for those who don't pay.

If you know differently I will happily bow to that.

[Feenie]

The £250 was for a different trip, not this one, Ormirian.

How much is it, OP?

[Goblinchild]

We do have a small pot of money to cover needs like this, but we have 14 classes and over 400 children. So it doesn't stretch very far. For more expensive trips, like the 5 day PGL holiday, parents know it is coming up and are offered guidance over a year to help pay for it. We also have links to some charitable funding, if we are told in advance that there might be difficulties.
The alternative is to stop school trips, which will hurt the less well-off the most.

[OddBoots]

Ormirian I might be reading it wrong but I think the £250 trip is for the older DC and the school have already agreed to accepting only £150 for it, this issue is for a different trip for the younger DC.

[greenlime]

Yes the payment is voluntary but they are just asking you to either

a) pay

or

b) let them know that you are not able to pay so that they can allocate your DC one of the free places.

I don't really see the problem?

[Feenie]

No, OddBoots, there is no fund set aside. Schools may choose to set aside a little, but it isn't a requirement and is increasingly difficult to do atm. PTA money is another option, but it depends on whether they want to set up a fund for genuine hardship - some parents regularly take advantage, and PTAs get narky at subsiding those who aren't genuinely in need while another parent who is in genuine need will empty her purse to pay.

We will have to start means testing - 'tis the only way.

[OddBoots]

That makes sense, Feenie. Sorry for the assumption.

[activate]

Why are you ignoring it then? - you have two choices

1. pay
   
2. inform the school that you are unable to pay
   
   you do not have the choice to avoid the issue

[Feenie]

It's fine, OddBoots - I actually think that lots of parents do think that's the case. We set a £10 limit on our trips and try to subsidise anything over that (coaches send us over the limit very quickly these days), we give plenty of notice, we offer a chance to pay by instalments and we subsidise our Y6 residential very, very heavily (thousands) to keep in at £120 for a week. But recently, payments have got more and more sparse - we typically get less than half of our parents paying anything at all for any trips now. Makes it harder and harder to finance them. Some parents genuinely cannot pay, but some definitely take the piss. We haven't cancelled a trip yet but that time is coming, without a doubt.

[activate]

any payment for a trip in school hours is voluntary in the state sector - however if parents choose not to pay the trip cannot go ahead - or subsequent trips cannot

if parents are unable to pay that's different and they should approach the school and explain that on this occasion they cannot afford to contribute - they should do this at the earliest possible occasion so that the school can calculate whether the trip is or isn't affordable.

A child won't be kept off a trip for a parent's refusal / inability to pay whilst the others go - but the whole trip may be cancelled if a majority / all don't pay

[Goblinchild]

Well, she can ignore the issue. Some parents do.
Have you signed a permission slip for him to go? Without that, they can't take him, so they can possibly negotiate a reduction in places and thus in price.
If you choose not to respond, and have signed the permission form, the school will have to get to the critical date and decide whether the trip can go ahead or not.

[Bunbaker]

I think you are being a little unfair to the school. They aren't mind readers and don't know whether you have no intention of paying or can't pay. It is common courtesy to let them know so they can allocate the funds.

[cookcleanerchaufferetc]

Why cant you just talk to the school?