"Put them away please Mum" - Sunday Times Ecosse section

[JanZ]

Unless you live in Scotland, you won't have had the pleasure of this article .

It had me apoplectic yesterday - with dh trying to tell me "chill out, just ignore it, you know articles/people like that aren't worth the energy". Didn't stop me reading out sections outragedly.

There are SO many different things I could say to refute her argumens, but I'll just say my vindictive closing thought, in response to her final paragraph: I HOPE, when she does have kids, and goes to try and express, that she is one of those that either can't express or has a baby that refuses the bottle. THEN see how much she enjoys being stuck permanently in the house because she doesn't want to "flaunt" breast feeding.

What absolute RUBBISH she talks. I know when I b/f (ds to a year), I always tried to do so discreetly - and once ds was attached, you'd have been hard pressed to see any skin (unless you were REALLY ogling) and ds just looked like he was having a snuggle. I have NEVER seen anyone "flaunting" it.

[mummytosteven]

oh dearie me, just been reading that. Surely if she doesn't want to see bosoms, she could just look the other way(!)

she obviously has no idea about how often small babies feed - you will have to keep an eye on her and when she does have a baby e-mail that article back to her to shame her. am also baffled about her comments on fear of vomiting. and bottle fed babies don't vomit/need winding???? bet she will be a joy to have as a friend when her friends start having little ones.

[hoxtonchick]

words fail me

[Blu]

The whole article is completely irrational - quite apart from the total lack of logic within it, she sounds as if she needs therapy!

Extraordinary that you can get paid for writing such nonsense - half the 'objections' she comes up with appy equally well to bottle feeding - supplying 'own food' in restaurants, regurgitating and winding, and imagine if a male journalist called breasts 'udders'. A serious lapse of editorial judgement in including this rubbish - ask for a refund in the cost of your paper.

[prufrock]

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hewlettsdaughter]

Unbelievable! And not at all helpful for those new to breastfeeding and perhaps not very confident about feeding in public - though I suppose that would be a result for her...

[Ghosty]

Oh I really want to see that article ...
But being overseas I can't access it ...
Doh ...

[hewlettsdaughter]

The Sunday Times - Scotland



July 25, 2004

Put them away please, mum
A move to protect breast-feeding in public has Fiona McCade pleading for a bosom-free zone



One of my abiding memories of the 1980s comedy revue Not The Nine O? Clock News is the briefest of sketches in which Pamela Stephenson struggled inside her front door with a bundle of shopping, one boob hanging out, and suddenly realised: ?Oh no! I left the baby on the bus!?

Since the 1960s, breast-feeding in public has become part of everyday life to such an extent that it seems almost anachronistic that we must now have an act of parliament to enshrine its existence. That, though, is the intent of the Labour MSP Elaine Smith. And if all goes to plan, from September new mothers in Scotland will be able to suckle in public with the protection of the law.



However, Holyrood?s health committee isn?t content with simply applying the seal of legitimacy to what women have been doing for ever. It wants to penalise some of those who object to the legislation and hand out fines of £2,500 to businesses ? most likely restaurants and cafes ? that object to breast-feeding on their premises.

Not surprisingly such a move has been accompanied by grumblings about a nanny state. ?Owners of cafes, shops and restaurants should be free to decide whether or not to allow breast-feeding on their premises,? says Nanette Milne, the Tory deputy health spokesman.

Milne is right. Freedom is the nub of the matter: freedom to whip your boobs out in public or freedom to dine without having a bosom waved in your face with a slobbering infant attached to it. It?s a tricky one, so let me make it simpler for any fearful restaurateurs out there who are wincing at the thought of their precious establishment turning into an outpost of Mothercare. I, and thousands like me, will actively seek out any restaurant that guarantees ?No breast-feeding here ?.

We?ll make up your fine in an evening and we?ll keep coming back to the safety of your sanctuary. Show me a restaurant that bans breast-feeding and I?ll be there, tipping like there?s no tomorrow and ordering the most expensive wine. Put up a sign.

Infant fascism has gone far enough without turning business owners into criminals. The main argument trotted out in favour of public breast-feeding is that it is ?natural? and therefore, by implication, acceptable. The sight of a python swallowing a calf is also natural, but I don?t fancy sitting opposite one when I?m out on the town.

I was once unfortunate enough to be present when a mother flounced into the restaurant where I was eating, flung her toddler down on a table and started to change its nappy. After that experience I can put up with just about anything and still manage to keep my food down, but it doesn?t mean I should have to. So while I wholeheartedly accept that my distaste for being present when someone is breast-feeding is entirely my problem, I would like to think that there are at least some places I could legally go to get away from it.

For many observers, an infant eating is not necessarily a pretty sight ? not until at least the age of five ? and I can never relax because of the constant threat of vomiting.

I?ve never witnessed an act of breast-feeding that was inconspicuous, because there is invariably some form of wind-letting and regurgitation. On occasion I?d have been prepared to pay some women £2,500 to button-up and move on.

By now many mothers will be muttering: ?This woman never had a child.? Spot on. Should it ever happen, though, I have every intention of breast-feeding. It is undeniably the best thing for mother and baby and should be recommended.

But if, once I?ve reproduced, I do join the sainted ranks of breast-feeders, I shall not be displaying myself in public.

There can be something insufferably superior about a woman doing some in-your-face nursing; the regulation-issue beatific smile, the ostentatious oozing of milk and motherhood. I don?t doubt that a woman with a newborn has so much on her mind, all consideration of other people goes out the window. But I also get the feeling that breast-feeding is such a difficult thing to do, once she gets the hang of it she wants nothing more than to flaunt the fact and so rushes straight to the top of Mount Smug to wave her udders about.

Then there?s the embarrassment factor that arises with breasts, and which is something to do with sex. Although everyone I?ve spoken to on this subject, male and female, agrees that there?s nothing sexual about the exposed, feeding breast, nevertheless there it is, dangling right in front of you and there?s always a struggle not to make eye contact with it.

It?s odd, because babies in public are an everyday thing, as is the act of feeding and also ? thanks to advertising ? the female breast. But put them all together in a communal setting and you have a delicate situation that is rarely pleasant and from which, if Smith has her way, there will be no escape.

I wonder, would cafe owners manage to avoid a criminal record if they asked lactating women to desist on the grounds that it?s unacceptable for customers to consume their own food on the premises?

Christine Grahame, the convener of the health committee, acknowledges that if the bill becomes an act, there could well be a rash of prosecutions, which will no doubt thrill the police.

Despite this, she is determined to ?eradicate any adverse reactions to breast-feeding?. The point she is missing is that breast-feeding is not the problem, it?s where it happens. Scotland is not sub-Saharan Africa. Women here have a choice about where we feed our babies and, most importantly, how quietly and discreetly we feed them.

Once we fed our young anywhere. Then we invented civilisation, culture and restaurants. In a final rush of creativity, someone also came up with the breast pump and the rubber teat. So, you yummy mummies, if you really want to prevent your favourite eatery from going bankrupt, why not get some of those?

[Blu]

I think a rigorous response to the ST Scotland is required....I can't find a general e mail feedback section, is there one?

[Fio2]

LOL dinosaur

I cant understand all this hang-up about feeding in public, I mean you cant even TELL when a baby is feeding most the time. People dont mind a lamb suckling on a sheep why should humans be any different. silly woman

[mummytojames]

ok then whos been whipping them out with a slobbering baby must have missed that because babys dont useualy slobber only dogs and if your waving them in peoples faces hows the poor mite supposed to eat sorry i just found it so funny that i had t be sarcastic towards her

[Ghosty]

HD ... thank you for that ...
I have read it with a mixture of reactions which include:
Jaw open
Shaking of head in disbelief
Guffaw of laughter at image of me with smug look on face waving my 'udders' at fellow diners at a restaurant
Under the breath, "What the F*?"
Gnashing of teeth ....
But actually words cannot describe what I think of this person who feels she can write this ...

Apart from "F off!"

[JanZ]

You should have seeen the photo that they had with the article - designed to make it look like the mum WAS flaunting it - but also, to anyone who knew anything about b/f. totally unrealstic UNLESS it was just while the mum was getting the baby latched on (and not very well at that! ). (small baby, lying on its back on mum's lap, with mum pointing the boob DOWN at the baby).

What is also irresponsible is that Scotland in general - and Glasgow in particular - has very poor b/f rates.

Her lack of logic was one of the many issues I had with her article.

She is going to get SUCH a shock when she does have a baby!

[Ghosty]

Actually KS ... DD is a really noisy feeder ... she kind of grunts when she feeds and makes all sorts of slurpy noises and then when she is distracted she pulls off with a loud resounding SMACK to see what is going on ...

I have decided to fly from NZ to Scotland tomorrow with DD and seek this woman out ... I will stalk her and pull out my breasts wherever she is .....

I am still gnashing my teeth by the way ...

[JanZ]

I found these letter page contact details Methinks they're going to get a few "choice words"

[binkie]

... you do realise this is adolescent trolling in shape of journalism, though? Ooh our postbag's been a bit thin lately, how can we find out whether our supplement is going straight in the bin or not?

Don't think stuff like this changes anyone's view or even makes life harder - the idiots who agree with it were already the sort of idiots who think themselves entitled to "object". Not that I don't think it should have a response - but I think one that focusses on how interesting and good the proposed law sounds (in context, eg, of general progressive moves like outlawing smoking in family-orientated pub chains (yay)) rather than dignifying silly-season trainee journalism with a direct response.

[JanZ]

There speaks the voice of reason! (.... But not sure I want to be reasonable! !)

[MeanBean]

Binkie, that's exactly what it is. I'm always amazed that newspapers and magazines will print articles written by people who know absolutely nothing about what they're writing about when it comes to certain subjects. She's obviously totally ignorant about breastfeeding, and as the editorial department doesn't think it's an important issue, some uninformed ignoramus is allowed to write all sorts of drivel about it. If it was education, or health, or medicine, or law, they'd expect their contributors to actually know something about what they're writing about. But as it's only breastfeeding (which of course doesn't matter in their world), bring on the morons.

[MeanBean]

And why the f*'s it called Ecosse? Pretentious, moi?

[JanZ]

I never asked, and so was never refused. I was also never aware of any negative vibes. My "concession" to feeding to in public was pluggin ds on "any old how2 even though he was very difficult to get latched on and normally I would take a lot of care over getting him postitioned correctly.

I did also express a lot and for a while he was getting a lot of his feeds as EBM (to "supplement" him, as he wasn't gaining weight). However, I actively DIDN'T like giving him bottles in public, as I felt it was important to be a "role model" in the West of Scotland, to show that a) women DO breast feed and b0 it is possible to do so discreetly! grin]/

Yah booh sucks! [wink) - that's a "stick your tongue out" emoticon.

Oops, that slipped out. Slap wrist. Must used REASONED argument.

[JanZ]

Oops - my emoticon didn't work Here it is:

[hmb]

Mean Bean (or is that Mean flaggolet )

Eccose, because of the Auld Aliance with France, I think