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Part 2: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

971 replies

AndHarry · 17/07/2014 11:50

Starting a new thread as the original is almost full.

The original thread is here. It was started on 1st July after three Israeli boys were found murdered, before the murder of the Palestinian boy and the resumption of sustained rocket attacks and Operation Protective edge.

There are lots of excellent posts and links in the original thread showcasing a variety of views. The main consensus was that there is fault on both sides. We also considered various options for people on both sides of the conflict to work towards a lasting peace.

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TheHoneyBadger · 17/07/2014 12:24

just marking place as i will be going out today and want to read when i get back.

cleanmean · 17/07/2014 12:36

Thank you for the new thread.

Regarding Netanyahu and his fb page, this is one of the reasons many jews liken him to Hitler who held similar views about the Jewish race. Sadly he is currently unchallengeable with regard to his destruction and degradation of palestinians.

wordsmithsforever · 17/07/2014 12:37

Here's the ANC statement - see www.iol.co.za/news/politics/anc-condemns-barbaric-gaza-attacks-1.1717803#.U8ezXU2KBSM.

Just be warned - the comments from my countrymen leave a lot to be desired - plenty of hatred for all sorts of groups but IOL is a fairly mainstream newspaper website. Unfortunately IOL doesn't seem to moderate the comments at all.

wordsmithsforever · 17/07/2014 12:42

Angry I shouldn't have read the bloody stupid comments - so much hatred! In the first 10 comments or so (I stopped reading!) - hatred for so-called klonkes (ugly term for mixed race people in SA - Jesse Duarte is mixed race), hatred for Arabs, and Holocaust deniers!

On the other hand, if peace can win in South Africa, where you can see the level of stupidity that still exists, there is hope for Israel/Palestine.

donnie · 17/07/2014 13:21

Likud: the party founded by a terrorist (Menachim Begin). For anyone in any doubt. The naysayers can read up abut Irgun and Stern, if they so wish.

Someone on the previous thread said that Likud is just Hamas a few decades down the line and they were right.

Quivering · 17/07/2014 20:22

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halfdrunkcoffee · 17/07/2014 20:35

Please come back Quivering; I found your posts interesting and insightful when the first thread was in its early stages (I was just lurking at that point).

Quivering · 17/07/2014 20:45

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cleanmean · 17/07/2014 21:10

Israel has decided to launch its ground attack. This is really bad news. More palestinian deaths and probably some israeli ones too. As I mentioned at the end of the last thread, ground attacks will result in israeli deaths and this will further infuriate bibi and intensify his campaign.

Quivering · 17/07/2014 21:19

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AndHarry · 17/07/2014 21:26

Welcome back Quivering.

Please could someone explain to me how the Israeli armed forces are set up? Is there a core of professional soldiers beefed up by the general population on national service? Is everyone a reservist?

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Quivering · 17/07/2014 21:36

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AndHarry · 17/07/2014 21:41

Ok, thanks. I'll look a bit further into the proportion of career soldiers vs drafts. To me it looks as though part of the problem might be inadequate training in practical application of the international rules of engagement for IDF soldiers.

Philip Hammond was on the news just now giving a far more equivocal statement that than released by David Cameron earlier in the week.

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Quivering · 17/07/2014 21:54

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AndHarry · 17/07/2014 21:59

That's certainly my experience of many of the British soldiers I've come into contact with. It's taboo to say so but I can't think that a typical teenager whose previous experience of rifles and artillery is limited to video games has the maturity or judgement to take part in armed service amidst a civilian population. Add the polarized views present in this particular conflict and the high likelihood of repeat exposure to propaganda and you've got one heck of a deadly mix.

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cleanmean · 17/07/2014 22:13

A ground invasion is going to massively increase casualties and is really a step too far. The ceasefire requirements by Hamas didn't seem unreasonable at all: the opening of the rafaa border, the siege to end, access to al aqsa mosque,(shame on you Israel for denying Muslims access to their mosque during ramadan), release of prisoners who were released as part of a prisoner swap and then rearrested by Israel and the promise by Israel not to attack Gaza. Something along those lines.

Why is it that Israel just cannot allow palestinians to live other than caged in a ghetto? And pulverised every few years by experimental weapons?

Quivering · 17/07/2014 22:19

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Quivering · 17/07/2014 22:36

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Quivering · 17/07/2014 22:42

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cleanmean · 17/07/2014 22:44

Fearing a whole race is no reason to keep them caged. There is no justification for barricaded native people into a ghetto.


The only way really to stop suicide bombings is to stop oppressing, and hope that they stop resisting.

claig · 17/07/2014 22:45

'No, they included demands that the PA pay hammas salaries and something else off the pa that I can't remember.'

Are you saying that the main obstacle to a peace deal and ceasefire that can prevent a ground invasion and teh deaths of hundreds of people is the fact that some Palestinian politicians won't pay Hamas their salaries?

Quivering · 17/07/2014 22:48

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Quivering · 17/07/2014 22:50

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claig · 17/07/2014 22:54

'It is a factor that some Hamas demands were of the PA rather than of Israel.'

Yes, but how big a factor is it compared to the other points that Hamas wants from Israel?

Quivering · 17/07/2014 22:58

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