Poor middle class kids?

(14 Posts)
3asAbird Mon 14-Oct-13 20:27:02

Quite a few articles in papers today daily mail, indie, daily mail and guardian about next generation of kids being worse off and less employment/education opportunities than their parents.

www.theguardian.com/society/2013/oct/12/middle-class-young-people-future-worse-parents

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2457438/Middle-class-children-worse-parents.html

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/13/next-generation-middle-classes-suffering-already?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

Always get confused by class both sets grand parents working class

dad was civil engineer/mum a housewife before they split.

married now and on above average income but rent.

I have a degree, husband does not but hes been too high earning to get tax credits.We kept cb.

we cant afford buy anytime soon.have no savings and cant afford private school or childcare for me to go back full time right now.

Im kind of glad my kids are young and not gradating anytime soon as wouldent know what to suggest they do.

So we will do what we cant try ensure they in the best state schools maybe pay for their driving lessons, buy them cheap car.

Its very odd gong back hometown all my mums family had ordinary jobs bank clerk, postman, plumber, mechanic and all have brought houses that even very high earners would not be able to buy.

It seems uk cost living but mainly housing may screw us over for generations.

Articles like this make me think should emigrate.

Also keep reading in london they have teach first, come state schools doing really well, free travel around the city, free school meals is that universil? As living and getting round other cities in uk can be equally expensive and school bus costs are quite large outgoing.

I have on observation noticed the more deprived schools in area offer loads free clubs and the more snobbly middle class ones dont seem to provide any assume thats to do with pupil premuim.

Baffled why so many middle class kids fail to get a-c at gcse.

Although dident the head of ofsted say the schools in leafy suburbs, rural areas and seaside towns more than inner city urban schools.

LittleRobots Mon 14-Oct-13 20:32:42

Already the case in my family. Middle class family - bankers, judges, colonel types, but I ended up Oxbridge but living in ex council house, not the best area, struggling on average income wage wondering how my children will do uni and housing.

Like you say though -many of my parents friends were single income middle earners in nice houses in nice areas.

Sigh. Most of my friends did ok. I slipped through the net :-(

sillyoldfool Mon 14-Oct-13 20:35:36

Fsm for all isn't across the whole of London, just in a couple of boroughs. Children travelling for free is wonderful, but the cost of adults travelling in to work pretty much evens that out, and the rent we pay is astronomical compared to other cities.
I was brought up thoroughly middle class, parents both teachers with degrees in history, 4 bed detached house in a nice village near a nice market town. Mum didnt work from having kids intil we were in pur teens, and then it was v pt. My parents are very comfortable now.
We'll never have what they have, we're renting, we both work, have not huge amounts of hope that we'll be able to help the dd's much financially.
Each generation of my family 'bettered' itself, going from labourers to university educated home owning professionals, until you get to us. Uni educated, with a first and a masters no less, but will never see the rewards for that that my patents have.

3asAbird Mon 14-Oct-13 21:11:33

Glad im not the only one lots seem to be right place right time and home ownership we accepted that ships well and truly sailed.

We live in quite an affluent area where so many do own, have flash cars and holiday abroad every year.

But most people who rent seem to be same as us no spare cash.

Hate the uncertainly of private rental hate the agents.

we would never stand a chance at social housing as would be lowest band .

We no where near ready to rent only chance we have is if mil leaves us much money morbid but that,s to be split 2 ways

eldest goes to fairly affuent village church school low free school meals..

The kids savings accounts pathetically low eldest had free child trust fund thing younger 2 dd not.

Do worry if hubby gets promotion bang goes child benefit at moment we under threshold.

shoppng mix waitrose/ocado online mixed with lidls and aldis

Never brought a brand new car.

havent been abroad in 8 years and no holiday this year unlike my parents.

really pleased for mum shes brought her dream barn conversion with 2nd husband -all kids grown up, mum works part time hes f/t mechanic earns 14k a year the new barn was 250k he had equity in his old house and mortgage is 300 quid a month combined to our 700 rent.

Most of time we feel poor we do best to ensure kids dont feel hard done by free days out museums, 2nd hand clothes and try make money go further.

I just hope kids do well right now they all primary got another 2 years before have breakdown over eldests secondry school place.

nicename Mon 14-Oct-13 21:16:23

My parents used to say 'oooh, glad we're not young any more - its so much harder' and they both lived through WW2.

SinisterBuggyMonth Mon 14-Oct-13 22:26:42

Yep, my DM managed to buy her house on her own on a middle income and her monthly repayments match our weekly mortgage, plus she now lives with her bf and rents the house out. The 2 of them plan to retire early and travel the country living off the combined rent. Good luck to them, but they are definately of the last generation time have these opportunities. My partner and.I could only afford to buy because I inherited a share of my Nans house, and therefore I feel i've had my help and I've asked my DM to leave her property to my DS rather than me.

I worry for my DS and DSS, getting a job is so much harder than 20 years ago when I left school, even learning to drive and then car insurance can cover the best part of your income, not to mention with plans to raise the age of drivers, reducing the means to get to work and any independence, plus raises in public transport prices (£5 bus return ticket price for a trip to the next town round here) and the steady dripfeed removal of benefits for the under 25's. So you can get married, have children, fight and die for your country, but housing benefit to the generation priced out more than most - forget it! Maybe under 25's should pay less income tax?

morethanpotatoprints Mon 14-Oct-13 22:37:05

I think there are alot of people especially media thinking short term tbh.
When we started off interest rates were the highest they have ever been or likely to be in the future and it was nearly impossible to afford to buy a house. A few years down the road and they steadily declined and now many years later are at their lowest. That is just one example how opportunities can change.
I don't think we have seen the last generation of home owners I just think it will be a while before we see changes.
Now it seems to be to much deposit required to get on the property ladder, I don't think houses are more expensive in comparison to 30 years ago. Rent is a lot higher in proportion to average earnings though, which makes it nearly impossible for people to rent and save a deposit. However, it was never easy to do this anyway.

bsc Mon 14-Oct-13 22:42:57

Baffled why so many middle class kids fail to get a-c at gcse.

You're confusing class and intelligence hmm

Ability has nothing to do with class. Nor does income.

You need to look more closely at statistics- it's not the young now that will be the first to suffer- thatcher's children will be the first generation to have a lower life expectancy than their parents. Those adults aged 30-40 now.

3asAbird Mon 14-Oct-13 23:00:34

Bsc I agree but pupil premuim targets low income as needing additional academic help surly extra help should be given to all kids struggling regardless of their parents income?

I guess there,s the idea that middle class care and support education more and childs outcome can depend how well educated the mother is.

Im a thatchers child sos husband.

but plenty of people our generation have brought with family help or 100%mortgages.

Hoping opportunities less bleak when mine leave school.

Also uk economys so heavily focussed on south east and london.

LittleRobots Mon 14-Oct-13 23:09:38

I'm a teacher living on a working class estate - must admit I'd quite like to be living in a middle class area with a "nice" village school, and shop in Waitrose!! I guess if I was I'd be similar to you though and comparing with those around me.

I definitely grew up expecting to "do better" than my parents, better area, better house, holidays etc. Never expected to do so much worse!

I don't have a problem with the pupil premium. We're struggling financially at the moment (redundancy) but we're still reading to our children, and have the background to support their education in a way some families don't.

I do feel incredibly frustrated about housing though. Even buying 5-10 years earlier would have made our lives a completely different story (as many of our friends did).

I regularly wonder how everyone else has managed!

bsc Mon 14-Oct-13 23:24:38

Pupil premium isn't just about academic help, it also can support social/emotional/behavioural needs that are creating a barrier to learning for those eligible.

I agree- the greatest indicator of a child's eventual educational outcomes is the educational level of the mother, however look at how many graduates today cannot afford housing, or are struggling to make ends meet due to relationship breakdown. I think there are lots in receipt of PP that are not wc. I suppose it depends upon the area you live in.

3asAbird Mon 14-Oct-13 23:45:15

Little robot

wasent meaning to come across as snobby.

I grew up in small rural market town high house prices but very few jobs most went to uni and moved away.

Those who stayed behind all have low paid part time jobs.

I dident expect to do better than my parents but never expected to do worse feels like no matter how hard we work we always be skint.

I shop at waitrose because they the best to use online free subs, free delvery and every so often not every month.

My child goes to a village school but we dont live in the village we moved her as she wasent getting the support in large town school near us, village school smaller and shes been given one to one.

Shes not on free school meals we comprimise and have school dinners 2/5days as huge expense.

Luckily her new schools not as flashy and showy as last school and much more mixed but still does not have high intake of fsm.

the threshold for free school meals s 16k so not sure how may middle income/middle class famlies would be entitled to this.

One thing have noticed with all the cuts s the deprived areas have retained a lot of services where as sure starts in nicer areas all shut down and hard to get help or find affordable stuff to do with kids in more affluent areas.

Just wondering if the articles were too bleak.

but cant see things changing for next few years.

LittleRobots Tue 15-Oct-13 00:00:49

Sorry didn't at all mean to suggest you were snobby. I completely agree with your op, and just very fed up with where I've ended up. Its something I often think about and do worry for my children. Our house is tiny so its not even as if we could just keep them here longer term while they save.

Mumzy Wed 16-Oct-13 09:18:08

I think when I was growing up in the 80s Britain was still a major player in the world, politically, economically and educationally. However 30 years down the line the world order has changed and the British haven't quite acknowledged the fact that other countries have made great strides in these areas and if not overtaking Britain then definitely catching us up. My parents emigrated to Britain in the 70s from a former British colony where being white and British meant you would instantly be promoted over the natives regardless of your actual ability. However we British do very little to address how we are to face these new world realities and still feel entitled to have a well funded welfare system, public services, good work/life balance, decent standard of living etc etc. ive worked in NHS for 20 years and in the last 10 years I have seen so much more competition for jobs from excellent candidates who are foreign nationals. On the whole they will accept lower grade jobs, are more focused and moan less about t&c than their British counterparts. DH works in the city and in his team of 12 he is 1 of only 2 British nationals and spends most of his time managing teams in other countries where most of the work is now out sourced as they will do it at far cheaper rates. I fear for our dcs as they will face a world where competition for jobs, housing and public services will be much harder. They will also have to understand that global events will also have a much bigger impact on their lives and they will need the education, life skills and emotional resilience to withstand all of these.

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