Tories to announce full workfare next week.

(111 Posts)
Darkesteyes Thu 26-Sep-13 23:03:36

According to the Mail This just popped up in my Twitter feed.

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/383342225926524928/photo/1

angry

QueFonda Fri 27-Sep-13 21:39:28

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

edam Fri 27-Sep-13 21:07:22

It also cost £63m to introduce the programme - because the government had to end existing contracts with organisations trying to get people back into work. £63m just thrown away! National Audit Office

QueFonda Fri 27-Sep-13 21:04:40

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

edam Fri 27-Sep-13 21:03:58

cubed - but workfare doesn't actually DO anything about the situation you describe. The numbers have been crunched, properly and rigorously, and people on the work programme are less likely to get a job. Are you really happy as a taxpayer that you are handing over shedloads of cash to keep people on benefits and stop them getting work?

It's worth while discussing problems in the system, and how to encourage and support people back into work, but the work programme is not the answer. It is actively damaging and a massive waste of money.

cubedmelon Fri 27-Sep-13 20:57:47

edam The fact (and it is an actual fact that I have seen first hand and not something I have read) some people wont look for a job if left to their own devices, they will happily claim JSA and mock the system and then laugh about it, thats not me being cruel, thats actually happening right now.

What about people that work and claim JSA at the same time. If they had to do workfare then they physically couldnt do both. Surely irradicating this will be beneficial.

As I have said in each of my posts it doesnt fit for everyone. Of course I understand the implications of it, if it goes wrong. Lets face it though, the system clearly isnt working now so what else should we do? Nothing? Maybe making JSA a smaller amount for those unwilling to do the workfare scheme and the full amount for those willing to? The actual fact is that there are people mocking the system and this is a massive drain that needs addressing, along with many other issues I might add.

I know my opinion is unpopular and I am comfortable with taking a flaming but things need to change.

mirry2 Fri 27-Sep-13 20:48:33

I went on a CV writing course through the Job club. I was the only one not compelled to do by the JSA agency. I wanted a job and was trying my hardest to get one but none of the others on the 3 day course was looking for work. They were either doing cash in hand jobs or were happy to be unemployed and they were all really annoyed that they were being made to go on the course or be penalised. I didn't finish the course because on day 3 I had an interview and got the job.

HeySoulSister Fri 27-Sep-13 20:28:05

All that currently exists at job club. Cv help/skills/courses.... It's already in place

QueFonda Fri 27-Sep-13 20:23:37

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

edam Fri 27-Sep-13 20:19:03

Cubed - the fact is, people on UK workfare are less likely to get a job than they would have been if the government had left them alone to actually look for work. It is costing taxpayers MORE to harass unemployed people - workfare keeps them out of work, it doesn't help them in. Those are not mere assertions, they are the results of the evaluation of the work programme.

Why would any sane person want to waste money keeping people out of work and treating them badly?

Only possible reasons are a. people don't understand that the programme is a disaster or b. you are a government minister determined to bash the unemployed and don't care how cruel you are being.

DameFanny Fri 27-Sep-13 20:06:30

None of these "initiatives" are about getting people into work - it's all just about getting the numbers down. But by giving free labour to companies they're reducing the number of real jobs available.

TheHammaconda Fri 27-Sep-13 19:29:13

DameFanny & Garlic that is ridiculous angry angry angry

topicofaffairs Fri 27-Sep-13 19:26:18

I disagree with workfare because it decreases actual jobs Dec employers can get free workers.

garlicbaguette Fri 27-Sep-13 19:19:51

You're right, Fanny angry They do all sorts of illogical shit. On a thread earlier this week, somebody told how their DS had to go to placement interview at the same time as they were due to sign. Neither party would change his appointment. You get sanctioned for not going to the interview. You get sanctioned for not attending your signing. He got sanctioned.

DameFanny Fri 27-Sep-13 19:15:24

I may be a bit behind the thread, but has anyone mentioned yet that people can be sanctioned for not attending a work placement because they couldn't afford to travel to the town it was in?

TheHammaconda Fri 27-Sep-13 18:43:44

This is just wrong for so many reasons, it makes me so angry.

I cannot for life of me see why anyone would consider it a good idea. It depresses real wage rates, reduces the demand for labour, reduces aggregate demand, lowers the government's potential tax revenue, does nothing to actually improve the work opportunities available for the unemployed, does very little to improve the occupational mobility of the unemployed and further stigmatises and alienates the unemployed.

Of the 1.14million people that have been referred to the Work Programme only 168,000 have gone on to work for 6 months. 14.7%. What a fucking joke.

garlicbaguette Fri 27-Sep-13 18:42:56

I'm too upset to read the whole thread yet blush

In America, people are regularly laid off so their employers can get them back on workfare. State departments have been particularly guilty of this.

Firms get a payout for each placement they take on. They get free staff - paid from taxes - with no liability for employment rights, and you nice taxpayers give them a cheque for getting free staff. If they keep their free staff for more than six weeks, you give them another handout of between £2k and £6k.

Still think it makes sense?

cubedmelon Fri 27-Sep-13 18:31:58

expat they are bleeding a flawed system dry - yes. Manipulative - maybe towards the system but being manipulative towards the system doesnt mean they are going to bash someone over the head for money does it? Thuggish - no and I havent once said they are.

You will draw your conclusions about this new plan based on the people and circumstances in your life and me in mine.

I wont change my mind. I also think, although its slim, there is more chance of gaining employment whilst getting some work experience for your JSA than an employer knocking your door and offering you a job. You've gotta be in it to win it. Frame of mind and all that and when I was out of work I started to fall into a trap of being comfortable and maybe withdrawn. I volunteered in the end and it boosted my confidence immensely.

As ive said it wont work for everyone but it would have helped me feel better and I stand by what I said about if my children are in that position I would certainly encourage them to do this sort of thing.

We'll probably just have to agree to disagree. smile

Minifingers Fri 27-Sep-13 18:28:11

I have no problem with the government providing work for the unemployed, paid at minimum wage. It need not be work that is particularly meaningful, and can go on until the unemployed person finds a job they would rather do.

Unpaid work experience on the other hand needs to be relevant, and time limited.

DumDum32 Fri 27-Sep-13 18:27:44

I think it would be good for economy for people to be in paid jobs & not be exploited by companies under this workfare melarchy!

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Fri 27-Sep-13 18:21:39

I'm very against this. I think that if people are going to work for a company, they should do so for proper wages. Not government benefits.

It's a horrible, cynical scheme that provides what is essentially dressed-up slave labour for unscrupulous companies. I'm willing to bet that the employees of the companies will suffer in the long-run too - less job security in a company with slave-labourers on their books.

expatinscotland Fri 27-Sep-13 18:18:38

You say they are people who manipulate things, cubed, that sounds kind of low-life to me. You'd be happy with people who are that way round vulnerable people?

cubedmelon Fri 27-Sep-13 18:16:30

expat who mentioned thugs? Are you suggesting that people in receipt of JSA are thugs?

The point I am making is that there are certain people who could work but choose not to and I welcome them having the choice of either doing some work or not getting their benefit.

I did also say that one size does not fit all and there are some instances where this system wont work and will let people down. I know if my children grow up and for whatever reason have to claim JSA for a long period of time, for their own good I would encourage them to undertake some sort of work.

ParsingFancy Fri 27-Sep-13 18:15:18

Yep, DumDum, it's long been known that it's better for the whole economy for teachers and accountants to be, well, teaching and accounting.

The reason jobseekers used to have, IIRC, 6 months during which they could be picky, before they had to take any job or else, wasn't to be nice to the jobseekers: it was to do what was good for the economy.

usualsuspect Fri 27-Sep-13 18:13:12

Some people would be happy to get a shelf stacking job if they were paid a wage to do it.

There won't be any bloody paid shelf stacking jobs though will they, if employers can get Labour for nowt.

DumDum32 Fri 27-Sep-13 18:08:57

heySS r u telling me ppl who qualify as teachers, Dr's, accountant etc would take up a staking shelf job in tesco/poundland? if these ppl r not expected to do so then y should any1 else. it's about having a choice & this government is taking that choice away from individuals.

I totally agree with other that is another hideous scheme to exploit people!

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