Soldier beheaded in Woolwich and it took police 20 mins

(162 Posts)
bkgirl Wed 22-May-13 19:35:04

Why am I not surprised? 20 minutes, what chance do we have with this pathetic response. As for the barracks...why couldn't someone come out with a gun and at least prevent these guys from attacking anyone else. Who was guarding the army base - do they have guns? Dreadful.

bkgirl Mon 27-May-13 19:14:37

Barracks and their quarters used to enjoy this essential but non obtrusive protection. Cutbacks deprived them but thankfully since Lees death, the protection has been reinstated. That means the security forces see the need and the families concerned also see the need for this armed protection. If you think they are getting unwarranted protection then please - say so. Ah, forgive me - you are.I would feel rather mean if I agreed with you.

bkgirl Mon 27-May-13 18:50:40

Barracks and garrison towns where soldiers and their wives and children are present need a greater ability to respond to a terrorist attack than a typical town. This is not to say we should turn everywhere in to Belfast or Lurgan circa 1970. My point was armed professionals should protect the bases - like the army wives have requested. They feel the need, I guess they have good reason.

niceguy2 Mon 27-May-13 13:05:09

I'm afraid so Bossy!

BKGirl. How do you think the French should improve their response times then? I mean their soldier was stabbed whilst on patrol, armed and with colleagues. Yet it was over so quickly that his fellow soldiers didn't even manage to point their weapons at the assailant and he got away.

We live in a free society, not a police state. I don't want police absolutely everywhere let alone have them routinely armed in the UK. As such we have to therefore accept a certain level of response time when incidents occur.

Christ on a bike ...this thread still going?

scaevola Mon 27-May-13 07:13:33

You cannot generalise about type of response to terrorist attack until all terrorists attack in the same way.

There was a stabbing in Woolwich yesterday - similar distance fom barracks. Are you levelling similar criticism at MoD for not attending that incident?

bkgirl Mon 27-May-13 07:09:12

No. Response time is vital in response to terrorist attacks. We cannot depend on scout leaders to divert attention. We need a professionally trained and armed quick response. If you cannot comprehend why this is important then acquire some knowledge on the subject.

niceguy2 Mon 27-May-13 00:12:25

'COULD' being the operative word.

From what I read, the attack was over in seconds. With the best will in the world I doubt the MOD police would have changed the outcome. Maybe the response time would have been quicker and yes maybe the terrorists would have charged the MOD police and have death by cop quicker.

But it's all speculation isn't it?

bkgirl Sun 26-May-13 17:45:07

So, it sounds like MOD Police COULD has responded quicker had there not been cutbacks. Lets hope they stay and are present in every barracks/garrison town. Anything else is sheer insanity.

bkgirl Sun 26-May-13 17:42:50

The day after 25-year-old Drummer Lee Rigby was murdered outside Woolwich barracks, anxious mothers met Army chiefs to call for more protection.

The women asked for their views to be heard at the very top “because they are feeling so exposed to ­danger”. Highly trained MoD police would have been at the scene of the murder in minutes had they still been conducting patrols.

They are trained to deal with lifethreatening incidents on the perimeter of the barracks and have authority to shoot to kill, the Sunday Express can reveal.

One source claimed that had such officers been in place, they would have been able to deal with the situation last Wednesday quicker than the Met Police firearms officers who arrived at the scene within 14 minutes.

During the wait the two suspects spouted extremist propaganda to bystanders.

The source said: "MoD police radios were linked into the Met's so they would have been right on top of this within minutes and would have known exactly what to do.

"Thankfully none of the bystanders were injured but it could have been a very different story."

The large barracks and surrounding homes in south-east London were once regularly patrolled by 29 MoD police armed with pistols and MP5 machine-guns.

But the operations were gradually scaled down until two months ago when the last unarmed officers were found other work.

Following the attack, however, MoD patrols were re-introduced.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/402686/Army-wives-terror-fear-Military-families-plea-for-more-guards-after-Rigby-murder

Lazyjaney Sun 26-May-13 09:00:19

"Sure, it would be nice if it wasn't necessary but when the uk has been involved in prolonged conflict elsewhere, you simply cannot expect to stay free from attacks"

I'm fascinated by how seldom this has been pointed out over the last few days.

Pagwatch Sat 25-May-13 17:14:51

Ah a typo. Enjoy. That will give you another shot at humour.

*that led you to suggest that I was sort of supporting the murderers.

Pagwatch Sat 25-May-13 17:12:40

What point did you have ? It's sort of lost admist what i think are attempts at sarcasm.
What was it that led you tsupportingly at I was sort of supporting the murderers?

lemonmuffin Sat 25-May-13 17:01:10

Nice post. Lots of lovely big words.

And completely missing the point --yet again-

Varya Sat 25-May-13 16:30:04

My understanding is that arms have to be issued to officers in an orderly way and that does take a bit of time. Condolences to the family of Drummer Lee Rigg.

Pagwatch Sat 25-May-13 16:22:10

Equally, as you say we have agreed, you could ponder why it is imposible for you to simply acknowledge that you misunderstood what I posted.
And that therefore your implication that I sympathised with the murderers was vile, stupid and unwarranted.

But I am guessing that anything as gracious and dignified as a simple apology would be completely beyond you.

lemonmuffin Sat 25-May-13 14:20:21

Thank you so much for that explanation Pagwatch. I managed to decipher most of the words (me being so thick an all)

I would point out to you why you're talking total bollocks but as we've agreed, arguing the toss with strangers total twats on the internet is pretty futile at the moment given the circumstances.

FanjoForTheMammaries Sat 25-May-13 10:29:32

Afaik he wasn't either.

It is grim title.

Can this be deleted too. Just to post 'soldier beheaded' makes me want to cry. He was a dad and a husband. Have some bloody respect.

Ledkr Sat 25-May-13 09:37:03

Does that help or are some of the words too big?
Ha ha grin new mn phrase.

scaevola Sat 25-May-13 09:15:55

The incident was 2 blocks from the camp gates, and not line of sight.

Pagwatch give up some people really are hard of thinking.

Onesleeptillwembley Sat 25-May-13 08:32:04

Survived a terrorist kidnap attempt? hmm

Pagwatch Sat 25-May-13 08:02:57

Are you having trouble?
I take your point about not bothering. It's a simple situation but seems to be eluding you.

A dreadful, hideous event takes place. People post on mn to express horror, revulsion at the idea that anyone could do such a thing. People also post their deep sympathy for the victim.

Instead of support or sympathy this thread is posted soley to take a pop at the police. As it was started while events were still unfolding, it struck me and several other posters as oppertunistic sniping, a spineless attempt to exploit the death of this poor man to make a cheap point.
That is why I posted 'have some respect'

You then decided that I was implying some sympathy for the murderers, a point so illogical, incoherent and ridiculous that a five year old would be ashamed to have been so dumb.

Does that help or are some of the words too big?

lemonmuffin Fri 24-May-13 23:39:03

Actually don't bother. After recent events it's really not worth it.

lemonmuffin Fri 24-May-13 21:56:40

Pagwatch: "oh cannot wait to leap on a bandwagon which seeks to oppertunistically take a pop at the police before the incident is barely over"

Okay. The above sentence is not making too much sense. Take a deep breath and have another go at explaining.

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