Maggie is Dead.

(354 Posts)
Talkinpeace Mon 08-Apr-13 12:55:50

at last.

boxershorts Thu 18-Apr-13 14:42:16

lets call it a day. she always was tedious

Beaaware Tue 16-Apr-13 20:39:56

If I could write on Maggie's coffin tomorrow these are the words I would put:

"BSE THE MOST CYNICAL ACT OF BIOLOGICAL WARFARE EVER WAGED AGAINST A CIVILIAN POPULATION BY WESTERN GOVERNMENT"

These are the words of Kevin Toolis a respectable Guardian journalist.

giveitago Mon 15-Apr-13 21:25:16

tb post the most interesting so far.

claig Mon 15-Apr-13 15:35:31

No doubt we will agree again. Agree to disagree.

HesterShaw Mon 15-Apr-13 15:34:03

I take things personally all the time grin

See you on another thread where no doubt we'll disagree again.

claig Mon 15-Apr-13 15:32:53

HesterShaw, I take nothing personally. They are all just ideas up for debate. I agree with many of the things you write, just not all things. All the best smile

HesterShaw Mon 15-Apr-13 15:28:34

Ah well.

I think I'm getting drawn into a bit of a personal spat with you now, claig so will withdraw.

I disagree with almost everything you write, yet respect your right to write it and all that. All the best smile

claig Mon 15-Apr-13 15:25:35

'Can I just ask you, do you think everyone who voted for anyone except Thatcher during the Thatcher years was misguided, for want of a better word?'

Certainly not. Everyone has to make their own choices about which issues are important and where spin lies. I look back and think that I was misguided when I fell for New Labour spin in 1997 and voted for them.

Politics is about ideas and also seeing through spin and understanding hidden agendas. Everyone understands these things differently.

claig Mon 15-Apr-13 15:21:44

HesterShaw, I never said you were behaving like that. I am talking about the people who had "death parties".

HesterShaw Mon 15-Apr-13 15:20:54

Can I just ask you, do you think everyone who voted for anyone except Thatcher during the Thatcher years was misguided, for want of a better word?

Because apart from in places like Zimbabwe, very politicians return 100% of the vote.

claig Mon 15-Apr-13 15:20:35

In a way, it shows yet again, how Thatcher was in a sense, one of us and not one of them, or as Booker says

"she came so radically to change her mind is yet another measure of the difference that has set her apart from all those political pygmies who have followed"

HesterShaw Mon 15-Apr-13 15:19:49

YES INCLUDING ME AS I MADE ABUNDANTLY CLEAR AND AS DID ALMOST EVERYONE ELSE. God!

I mentioned my friend with the champagne in South Wales as an illustration of how strongly people feel and for what reasons. Just because he is my friend, it doesn't mean I too had champagne on ice for a decade.

claig Mon 15-Apr-13 15:18:08

'Lots of people here admit when they had got it wrong too.'

I agree, we all get things wrong, and I thought it was also interesting that Thatcher herself got things wrong as well, was taken in by "experts" who sold policies to her, and eventually saw the light and did what was right.

claig Mon 15-Apr-13 15:15:47

'The point was that just because someone doesn't vote Tory or think Maggie Thatcher deserves a £10 million funeral, it doesn't make them a vindictive Red. There a several options.'

Nobody said it did. We are all of a consensus that disagreement and difference of opinions is what democracy is all about. Some of us, however, thought that those engaging in "death parties" and handing out "death cakes" and actually celebrating her death, were acting distastefully.

HesterShaw Mon 15-Apr-13 15:14:50

Freudian slip?

No, just a genuine typo. If hacking my own digits off would undo it, I would smile

Lots of people here admit when they had got it wrong too. For example, our local MP I always thought was an honest and decent man, but I've learned things about him which means he can whistle for my vote next time. It makes me sad really.

claig Mon 15-Apr-13 15:10:41

To me, the fact that Thatcher could schange her mind on issues as significant as Europe and as important in the sense of changing the way of life of people as climate change, makes Thatcher even greater than I thought she was.

claig Mon 15-Apr-13 15:07:39

'Ironic typo again - man made, not mad made.'

Freudian slip?

claig Mon 15-Apr-13 15:06:40

'Why do you wish to turn the subject round?'

No, I thought it was interesting that Thatcher also changed her mind and did in fact make u-turns. She was for turning when she had done some learning. She was flexible in her thought and admitted it when she had got things wrong.

HesterShaw Mon 15-Apr-13 15:00:11

And besides, we are not talking about Thatcher herself being able to change her mind. (Hurrah for Thatcher).

The point was that just because someone doesn't vote Tory or think Maggie Thatcher deserves a £10 million funeral, it doesn't make them a vindictive Red. There a several options.

HesterShaw Mon 15-Apr-13 14:58:13

Ironic typo again - man made, not mad made.

HesterShaw Mon 15-Apr-13 14:57:39

We are not talking about "global warming" (thoroughly outdated phrase used by no one except people who like to say things like "Ha! Global warming indeed!" after a day of snow). You have made your feelings on mad made climate change perfectly clear on other threads, and also your opinions about anyone who expresses concern for the enviromment or wildlife. And no, I haven't been stalking you - it's just that you tend to post such very long, frequent posts that I remembered them.

Climate change is indeed a contentious topic (despite 90% of climatologists broadly agreeing). But you seem to know all about the life, the universe and everything.

Why do you wish to turn the subject round? Is it because there seems to have been a bit of a consensus reached with the last few posts?

noddyholder Mon 15-Apr-13 14:48:51

Such a shame Clegg was led by his ego If he had not jumped into bed with the tories the Lib Dems would have been in a different place 2014

claig Mon 15-Apr-13 14:48:39

Sorry it is A Daily Telegraph article by Christopher Booker that was linked to by a Daily Mail web page.

claig Mon 15-Apr-13 14:45:41

'That's the thing see? Someone's voting habits can change.'

Exactly. I voted Labour in 1997. I fell for the spin, just like millions of others.

But I never fell for the spin of global warming. Thatcher also changed her mind on key issues and one of them was on global warming. Initially, Thatcher fell for the frauds' spin on climate catastrophe. She never realised their game. But Thatcher was always a real thinker and she soon cottoned on to what they were all about and she changed her mind. That shows how Thatcher was no fraud and did not need to spin. It is a shame that her climate change scepticism never became news. Maybe the frauds kept it out of the media on purpose, lest it sink their plans.

Very interesting article in the Mail on how Thatcher was able to change her mind on key issues. Booker says that the ability of Thatcher to change her mind also sets her apart from many other politicians, who maintain the spin instead of recycling it in the bin. So Thatcher did make u-turns on major issues.

'Lady Thatcher had already written, under the heading “Hot air and global warming”, what amounted to a complete recantation of her earlier views, voicing precisely those fundamental doubts over the warming panic that were later to become familiar.

Pouring scorn on what she called “the doomsters”, she questioned all the main scientific assumptions that had been used to drive the scare

...

She recognised how distortions of the science had been used to mask an anti-capitalist, Left-wing political agenda that posed a very serious threat to human progress and prosperity.

...

But the fact that on these two great issues she came so radically to change her mind is yet another measure of the difference that has set her apart from all those political pygmies who have followed.'

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/9990332/Margaret-Thatcher-On-two-of-the-great-issues-the-lady-was-indeed-for-turning.html

HesterShaw Mon 15-Apr-13 12:30:27

I voted for labour in 1997, as did a huge number of people who had never done before or ever done since. Since then I have voted for LibDem - it's either them or the Tories in this part of the world, and they have have represented the south west well over the years in my opinion - but after the Coalition government, I certainly won't be doing again. If there's an Independent, I'll vote for them, or maybe Green. God knows the natural world needs as much help as it can get.

That's the thing see? Someone's voting habits can change. Just because they are not one thing, doesn't make them another thing.

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