(Warnng upsetting) Little boy murdered for failing to learn passages from the Koran

(101 Posts)
ReallyTired Mon 07-Jan-13 12:57:05

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-20920649

This news story made me want to cry. I feel its tragic that no one managed to prevent the horrific abuse. I feel that the entire UK let this little boy down.

This case is as bad as Baby P or Victoria Climbe.

knackeredoutmum Tue 08-Jan-13 09:20:10

you have misunderstood me, the woman is a child beater, the reason for the beating is incidental, if she werent beating him because of his quran memorising it would have been something else

ReallyTired Tue 08-Jan-13 10:54:46

It is a tremenous feat to memorise the entire Koran. It takes years for an adult to achieve such a goal. Sara Ege was obcessive, prehaps she is autistic. It would certainly explain her childhood feat of learnng the Koran so well.

"Normal muslim people do not beat their kids because they cant learn fast enough. It is the act of a dangerous and out of control woman who needed help - unfortunately it seems from the serious case review that noone was aware of that. "

I am sure there have been extensive pychiatric reports and assessments. Sara's actions after the event showed she was quite compus mentous. She was able to think and act clearly. She choose not to seek medical assistance for her son, she tried to frame her husband and pervert the course of justice by attempting to destroy the body.

I think she has been given the right sentence. I am sure that she would executed in the majority of muslim countries. Sara Ege is lucky in that Britain can afford to keep her in jail for 17 years.

knackeredoutmum Tue 08-Jan-13 11:08:58

Tbh i dont know how all the different charges work but was surprised she got charged with murder (did she really intend to kill him) and not some kind of aggravated manslaughter (ie reckless beating resulting in unintentional death) -the poor boys death doesnt seem in any way intentional or premeditated to me?

Perhaps she is autistic? What does that mean? Are autistic people obsessive people who are able to commit everything to memory and child beaters?

Please be careful of generalisations.

alemci Tue 08-Jan-13 11:16:13

I am sure child abuse does happen in every culture but this particular religion and culture does come across as being very bullying and controlling e.g. towards women and violence does seem to occur.e.g. honour killings, forcing their daughters to marry some distant cousin. I know this was the mother and she must be mentally unhinged or just nasty.

Poor little boy. not fair.

WaynettaSlobsLover Tue 08-Jan-13 11:37:30

Alemci. Please for gods sake do not label a religion as bullying and controlling. Anyone with half a brain can see that the perpetrators of crimes, regardless of race or religion, are simply sickos. I assure you if islam as a religion was 'controlling' or 'bullying' there is no way in hell I would have become muslim. Do your research before speaking like that.

WaynettaSlobsLover Tue 08-Jan-13 11:39:10

Islam forbids physical violence, forbids forced marriage and forbids oppression against people. Very very easy to google. It's these types of daily fail remarks that never cease to amaze me.

AmberLeaf Tue 08-Jan-13 11:47:34

It is a tremenous feat to memorise the entire Koran. It takes years for an adult to achieve such a goal. Sara Ege was obcessive, prehaps she is autistic It would certainly explain her childhood feat of learnng the Koran so well

Really?

Wow, well that makes a change from the usual 'perhaps he is autistic' directed at abusive husbands.

alemci Tue 08-Jan-13 12:00:19

No I stand by what i say. I am not saying everyone who practises Islam is like that but there have been quite a few incidents in the media recently which reflect my thoughts e.g. the men in Rochdale who abused young girls, the parents in court for murdering their daughter.

There was the programme on channel 4 with the secret filming in a mosque school where children were hit by the Imman. was this a staged production.

Why are you amazed. If Islam forbids violence then why do so many attrocities happen in connection with it in the middle East.

There is nothing wrong with my brain Waynetta.

Snorbs Tue 08-Jan-13 12:10:04

Waynetta, Quran verse 4:34 clearly calls for husbands to beat their wives for disobedience.

WaynettaSlobsLover Tue 08-Jan-13 12:14:02

There clearly is something wrong with your brain I have to tell you. Have there never been sex rings in the uk run by white people who come from catholic backgrounds? Have children never been abused at Sunday school and in non Muslim institutions? What about the violence in ireland and in israel??I think you have been reading too much daily fail and I think you are too lazy to educate yourself about the religion you are labelling. I thank god not everyone is so narrow minded and so severely lacking in life experience and knowledge. I will eat my hat if you even have muslim friends.

WaynettaSlobsLover Tue 08-Jan-13 12:15:25

You read the English translation, not the Arabic. The Arabic states that a man may tap his wife if she is openly lewd or abusive in her behaviour. Why don't you research it for yourself?

WaynettaSlobsLover Tue 08-Jan-13 12:18:14

Similarly if a husband is lewd and abusive then the woman can get a divorce. The misunderstandings come in when people quote a scripture that they have no knowledge of and do not understand the original language is it written in.

alemci Tue 08-Jan-13 12:24:41

I am not narrow minded Waynetta and nothing is wrong with my brain even if you insist on telling me there is. I haven't heard of any child being murdered for not knowing their bible for instance or the Torah.

Maybe this woman had a troubled background and had been abused in the same way by her parents.

I agree there has been plenty of abuse in the name of religion e.g. catholicism and alot of it is political as I suspect is the case with Islam

You seem very defensive about Islam. Have you converted?

also the intolerance if a Moslem decides to become a christian. I can't quite get to grips with that.

I still think there is something in Islam that just hasn't moved into the 21st century and it is stuck where the church was 500 years' ago.

Lottapianos Tue 08-Jan-13 12:28:44

'Alemci. Please for gods sake do not label a religion as bullying and controlling'

Waynetta, I grew up in a devoutly Catholic family in Ireland. I have no problem with Catholicism being labelled a bullying and controlling religion, which encourages extremely unhealthy attitudes towards women and sexual relationships. I think that alemci has a point about Islam, but that's not to label every Muslim person as a bully, far from it.

alemci Tue 08-Jan-13 12:33:51

thanks Lotta. That is what I am saying, definitely not every Moslem.

If this women needed to talk to someone about how she felt would she have been supported at her mosque by individual people or would she be judged. was she isolated and lonely.

ethelb Tue 08-Jan-13 12:38:32

It is interesting to note the number of people who have lept to claim that this woman did it because she was a child abuser, not because she is a muslim.

You would never get that if it had been a Catholic involved. There were a number of sneering claims that Jimmy Saville did what he did because he was a Catholic on MN just a few months ago.

What's the difference here?

WaynettaSlobsLover Tue 08-Jan-13 12:47:18

Moslem? That's a strange spelling. Are you American alemci? If so, to be honest what with all the 'war on terror' propaganda George bush subjected America to, I wouldn't be surprised at the reaction you have displayed. You have labelled islam whilst contradicting yourself in saying that you don't blame every Muslim. How does that make sense? You just stated above how the religion is controlling and bullying and then gave the Rochdale sex ring and the mosque beatings as an example of Muslims behaviour. You cannot lay the blame on religion itself when what it teaches are the opposite of what the people following it do. Let me know when you or anyone else has educated yourselves sufficiently before making out islam to be something it is not. May the child rest in peace.

WaynettaSlobsLover Tue 08-Jan-13 12:49:19

Nice to see this is a little meeting ground for the daily fail readers. biscuit all round

HerRoyalGoddess Tue 08-Jan-13 12:51:01

What happened to that little boy was horrific and the woman should have been given life in prison with no chance of parole after seventeen years. Tonight I'll be giving my children an extra special cuddle and reminding them that I love them unconditionally.

Snorbs Tue 08-Jan-13 13:04:03

Waynetta, yes I read the English translation. Half a dozen translations, in fact, all of which vary from "beat" to "scourge" as the verb in the sentence. Whose translation do you prefer? Or do you read Arabic natively and so are translating yourself?

alemci Tue 08-Jan-13 13:17:45

no not American. I thought it could be spelled either way. I think the daily fail comment is a bit daft and pointless.

I still think Islam does tend to be the way I described it but maybe some followers take it more seriously than others. In the way that you have practising christians and people who would describe themselves as a christian but would not regularly go to church.

What is the reason behind the honour killings - is it cultural? Why will Muslims not accept it if members of their family want to become a christian?

What do you think made the women behave this way? Was it the expectations of her religion? Was her husband abusing her and then she was pushed over the edge and murdered her son.

Maybe it is not the religion but the cultural expectations of families. I don't know but if I wish to comment I will do so and not feel browbeaten.

WaynettaSlobsLover Tue 08-Jan-13 13:18:05

Exactly my point. The English translation. When the prophet Mohammed was asked what this meant, he demonstrated by taking a miswak (a little wooden toothbrush stick) and tapping it lightly to explain what the meaning of the Quran verse said. This is in ahadith which are a series if narrations from his time and give us explanations in many aspects of life. You can pick and prod as much as you like, your predictability in trying to make out men can thrash their wives in islam is absolutely nothing I haven't seen before. Then again, I can't argue with your ignorance so it's easier just to smile and nod. grin

zorbathegreek Tue 08-Jan-13 13:20:31

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

WaynettaSlobsLover Tue 08-Jan-13 13:23:43

All the questions you just asked above, I have to say I'm pretty shocked that you are serious about asking them. And yet again there you go, contradicting yourself; one minute saying not all Muslims act a certain way and then you are asking why Muslims (generalisation again) wont accept it if a family member wants to become Christian. It just proves what lack of education and general knowledge you have in many areas of life. Why don't you google Hindus and honour killings/forced marriage, just an example. Not all people who practise a religion seriously such as myself, condone the types of things that go on in the world.

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