Hamas and Israel on the brink of war

(104 Posts)
AnyaKnowIt Wed 14-Nov-12 21:39:31
bobthebuddha Fri 23-Nov-12 14:40:49

ScorpionQueen, for what it's worth quite a few pictures people (BBC staff included) post are from the conflict in Syria, 'reassigned' to the Palestinians. At least 30,000 people have been killed in Syria in 18 months!

For some reason Syrian deaths don't seem to upset people as much. Why is this? People seem to choose their 'cause' to align with their natural political affiliations. Perhaps Syrians are not deemed to be supported by the West/the US and are therefore not, apparently, as bad as Israelis? Every child's death is equal, but you wouldn't think it from the way people go on from the comfort of their safe homes here in the West as if they were choosing which sodding football team to follow.

difficultpickle Wed 21-Nov-12 21:57:16

There is definitely a blockade on Gaza. It has been there for years and is completely controlled by Israel. I can't imagine what it is like to live in Gaza but I am sure their freedom of movement is restricted in a way that the citizens of Israel can't even fathom.

Tigger you are completely incorrect in stating that only Palestinians are given sympathy. Look at the assistance given to Kosovo. If Israel did not have such a strong ally in the US then a similar level of assistance would have been given to Palestinians generations ago.

tiggersreturn Wed 21-Nov-12 21:51:57

Remind me Foxsake where Jewish children or in fact any children in Europe were "allowed to be evacuated" to in WW2? The only children who were evacuated were English ones to the countryside in WW2 and the 2 kindertransport of just under 10,000 Jewish children from Austria and Germany before WW2. Once war broke out it stopped and children were the first to be killed.

Now look at what happens in Israel. While Gaza is "under blockade" children are not only allowed to receive treatment in Israeli hospitals which are of a higher standard but are even funded by foundations in Israel en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Israel. Furthermore since the conflict has started 124 truckloads of supplies - including medical supplies, food, and gas - were delivered from Israel to Gaza. That's while Gaza was sending 880 rockets and had killed 5 Israelis. Quite a blockade.

Before starting sending rockets to Gaza, the IDF dropped flyers in Arabic throughout Gaza broadcasting what they were going to do and telling everyone to avoid being present in the vicinity of Hamas operatives and facilities of other terrorist organisations that pose a risk to your safety. That's rather more warning than Hamas give Israeli women and children. They get a siren at any time of day or night. Israeli babies have nowhere to go other than their shelters providing they get there in time (less than 20 seconds) and don't receive a direct hit. I hear your concern for all children loudly and clearly in your post.

In addition, it is very difficult for Gazan women and children to avoid being used in this conflict because that is the exact aim of Hamas. They want to kill their own women and children to prove how awful Israel is. www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0wJXf2nt4Y these are the words of Hamas.

This is not genocide or even close to it. Your comments are shameful. The awful lesson that can be learnt from the Holocaust is that unless you have political and military support and independence people will happily sit by and watch you die. Look at the Armenians, the Rwandans, Sudan and more. Only the Palestinians seem to raise such levels of sympathy. How very strange.

tiggersreturn Wed 21-Nov-12 21:22:49

No a ceasefire has been agreed www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20436699 it's just that 20 rockets have been sent from Gaza to Israel (unclear if Hamas or some other rocket sending party) since then

AnyaKnowIt Tue 20-Nov-12 21:10:29

No ceasefire has been agreed sad there were rumours it would be starting at 10pm UK time sad

FoxSake Tue 20-Nov-12 20:52:39

repercussions of the gaza embargo by MSF

FoxSake Tue 20-Nov-12 20:42:36

The circumstances are not disimilar at all, hide away if turning away makes you feel better, Israel are committing serious war crimes similar to that commited during ww2. The similarities are all there. If you google the UN gaza blockade or any non biased aid organisation MSF, Red Cross UNICEF they all talk about the Israelis Blockade being unlawful with the worst effected being women and children.

There are women and children trapped in a densely populated area with no shelter, no where to hide, no escape with sophisticated military raining bombs on their homes. Small babies are heaving their legs blown off being killed and being left orphans. This is not there war. Even during ww2small children were allowed to be evacuated to safe places, not in Gaza.

The genocide of a people, shame on you Israel and your supporters.

Elfontheshelfiswatchingyou Tue 20-Nov-12 20:15:39

I find the whole thing very disturbing. I'm sorry if you are offended, but sadly circumstances are not that dissimilar.

splashymcsplash Tue 20-Nov-12 20:12:32

Foxsake what is the source you are quoting?

I think there is an awful lot of misinformation out there.

Humanitarian supplies are allowed in, butvia the correct routes. For political reasons, many organisations have not wished to follow these routes.

I'm going to hide this thread now. elf As someone who has family members who survived the ghettos and worse I find your comment rather disturbing.

Elfontheshelfiswatchingyou Tue 20-Nov-12 20:06:30

I thought everyone knew that the blockade prevented medicine, food, vital supplies and even children's toys getting through. Reminds me of the ghettos in WW2.
sad

FoxSake Tue 20-Nov-12 16:54:09

Really ? Just weapons.

"According to the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs at various times, Israel has blocked goods including wheelchairs, dry food items, and crayons, Stationery, soccer balls, and musical instruments.International aid group Mercy Corps said it was blocked from sending 90 tons of macaroni and other foodstuffs. After international pressure, Israeli authorities said that they were giving the shipment a green light. Israel was also reported to have prevented aid groups from sending in other items, such as paper, crayons,[citation needed] tomato paste and lentils." The UN have found the blockade to me unlawful from a humanitarian point of view and yet Israel refused to end it.

Israel also forces Palestinians to carry ID cards, sounds all to familiar to me. Because of the blockades families are forced to use Gas bottles for cooking, bought on the black market, there are horrendous injuries weekly to women and children from these cannisters exploding, the victims are then prevented from travelling to specialist burns units because of the blockades, MSF who remain impartial have documented this well.

splashymcsplash Tue 20-Nov-12 16:25:22

Foxsake because the blockade was in place to prevent missiles and other weapons which would be used on Israel from entering the country. Unfortunately there are numerous smuggling tunnels, so Israel's blockade was not very effective anyway. Just look at the numberof missiles which have been sent into Israel.

FoxSake Tue 20-Nov-12 14:11:11

donnie I like Alex thomson for channel 4 news, his twitter feed is excellent.

Splashy why did Israel continue to blockade Gaza, preventing medical care and electricity to the people of Gaza even during the ceasefire? A genuine question. I do not support Hamas or Israel but I do believe that when you opress a people the way the Israelis opress the people of Palestine you will always breed militant groups. Israel has an agenda, they are inciting war by murdering innocent women and children.

splashymcsplash Tue 20-Nov-12 14:02:37

I agree, the BBC is incredibly biased. There are many well documented instances of them refusing to report on atrocities committed by Palestinians against Israeli civilians including women and children.

No wonder there is so much anti-Israel sentiment in the UK when reporting is so one sided.

I wonder how many people who are so quick to condemn Israel know that Hamas broke the ceasefire and has been doing so for many months.

donnie Tue 20-Nov-12 12:51:09

katkouta - as a matter of interest which news sources do you recommend as accurate and unbiased?

katkouta Mon 19-Nov-12 22:55:39

Not going to get into an arguement about the situation, we'd be here forever!

Just want to advise people not to trust ANY article regarding this situation written by the BBC. They are utterly disgusting with their biased reports.

ScorpionQueen Mon 19-Nov-12 21:37:48

Someone I know on FB keeps posting pictures of dead children. I am sitting here crying and feeling so helpless. I'm too bloody overdrawn to even donate to the Islamic Relief fund. It is all just so awful. I'm such a coward I've had to unsubscribe from their feed as I can't bear to look at the images. Then I feel bad because I only have to look at them, they aren't my children, family, friends. These are real people. Children. I don't care who started it but it needs to stop.
sad

tiggersreturn Mon 19-Nov-12 19:47:10

Donnie you always misread posts to make your points. Go back and you'll find a reference to conquering.

Are you offering the parts of Hebron back to the Jews who were murdered there in 1929? I don't think so. You have no solutions just accusations.

RooneyMara Mon 19-Nov-12 12:30:17

It's all well over my head as I'm crap at understanding politics OR history.

But surely no one here is wrong or right, they're both unhappy, neither really wants to be fighting, and they need to, well, compromise a bit?

When I look at pictures of little kids on TV holding home made wooden guns, and talk to the mum at school who grew up in Palestine and cannot allow her child to play with toy weapons, it just looks like an intractable, cyclical situation where kids grow up having only ever known hostility and having an enemy to blame.

I wish we could talk some sense into these people.

littleducks Mon 19-Nov-12 12:27:02

True bob, I didn't mean either side had a moral or physical victory just that it was a very onesided view

JakeBullet Mon 19-Nov-12 08:03:26

And another shout for Islamic Relief as linked below. I made a donation last night.

JakeBullet Mon 19-Nov-12 08:02:13

The IsraelI land is a biblical thing, only difference now is that the Israelis are no longer an oppressed people, they are now the oppressors.

squoosh Mon 19-Nov-12 02:08:01

Bad, bad PR day for Israel.

If Israel proceeds with a ground invasion we can only hope that international opinion turns fully against them.

donnie Sun 18-Nov-12 22:37:48

oh dear Tigger you are having trouble with a few basic facts aren't you - the 'Arabs fleeing their homes at the start of the war' - did the Irgun massacre of Deir Yassin just not happen then? and what about the Irgun bombings of hotels and other places - including the King David Hotel - did these just not happen either?

Your justification for the 'settlements' -your word, definitely not mine - seems to be that is says something in the Bible so it must be true. If , as you say, Israel believes that Palestinian land ' is their biblically and historically' then you have just proved my earlier point that there is fundamental racism entrenched in their land policy.

Let us not call them 'settlements' because that conceals the truth that they are stolen from other families. Stolen by radicals who believe - and are encouraged by the Israeli govt to believe - that they have a right by virtue of their birth and nationality to take the land from others. Netanyahu described it to Hillary Clinton as 'natural expansion'.

Anyway we have been here before, many times.

bobthebuddha Sun 18-Nov-12 22:32:57

littleducks, if you think either side in this are 'winners' you're not someone who has to live with the day-to-day reality. There are no winners.

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