Holidays in school time

[nutcracker]

Did anyone know that if you take your child on holiday in school time then you can now be fined ???????????? Personally i think it's ridiculous, I have only ever taken dd1 out of school for holiday once but i asked for books and worksheets for her to do. What do you think ????

[Hulababy]

I think if you are only out for the allowed 10 days a year and are avoiding exam times and GCSE/A-Level years then there should be no problems at all.

Don't think this will stop truancy as it is stated though.

Off to bed now so only a short post but have number of reasons why missing time in Years 10-13 are more difficult.

[Ailsa]

I think it's only aimed at those that DON'T ask for the Headteacher's permission. It's apparently going to be the school responsibility to impose any fines. I wonder how many schools are going to bother, as if they don't have enough work to do!

[tigermoth]

Two things I find inconsistent about this latest government crackdown:

Firstly, it now seems acceptable, even desirable if you can afford it, to let your children have a gap year after sixth form and travel to round off their education, broaden your mind etc etc. I would expect lots of MP's children do just that. OK these children have officially left school so are not missing lessons, but .... on one hand you have the argument that children going abroad is a good thing eductionally, while on the other hand parents taking their children abroad in term time is a bad thing educationally. Slightly inconsitant and hypocritical IMO. And what about the mushrooming of extended school trips? my 9 year old and his class will be missing a week of lessons when he takes his first trip in March. And the school have made it clear they expect all children to go. I feel the way this goverment initative has been reported in the press makes no allowance for the educational and mind broadining benefits of taking a child away from school for the odd holiday abroad. It throws a bad light on the parents who dare to do this and that's that.

I am not saying yearly holidays in term time are a good idea, but many families cannot afford high season holiday prices so have no choice if they want to get away together once in a while.

And that's the second thing I find inconsistent. If the government want schools to fine parents and put this moral pressure on them, why aren't they also fining and putting moral pressure on the holiday companies who up their prices so much during school holiday time?

[charlize]

Iam afraid Iam guilty of this. We have our annual summer holiday end of july, usually go the day after school breaks up.
But we also go to center parcs every year along with my parents and sister and brother his partner etc. We go the first week in sept as the price is half what it is the week before, unfortunatley this means ds miss their first couple of days back in school, (no more than 2)

However now that ds1 will be starting high school in sept we are to do this no more.
I feel those first couple of days in high school term are v important as that is when they get their timetables etc.
we are now going to center parcs every other yr so that my parents can afford to go during the summer holidays.

[WideWebWitch]

I think the travel companies should be prohibited from racking their prices up by 100% or whatever it is, during school holidays. Problem solved overnight pretty much, I bet. I agree, this won't solve much - it's a £100 fine and the maths probably work out that it's still cheaper to take your child out of school and save thousands on a holiday! I know it doesn't take into account the igmoniny of being fined though.

[Roscoe]

We don't go on holiday so this wouldn't affect us, but I do think that this idea will do little to tackle the REAL problems of truancy. Why not start by targetting and helping those children who are missing literally months of school each year. These children should be a priority. Besides, how long will it be before parents work out that it is still cheaper to pay the fine than to pay the extras charged for breaks during the school holidays?

[mimm]

I think that it is important not to go on holiday during schooltime if it can be avoided. It is difficult for kids to catch up on their work etc. Family holidays are not the same as gap years IMO as this is a time when young people are often working abroad and are learning to be independent. As a teacher I used to get fed up of pupils missing a couple of weeks of school to go on holiday when the same parents would then complain about their exam results etc.

[tallulah]

There was a very long & heated thread on this subject before. There are several aspects to this, the main one being that the Govt is very keen to get both parents out to work, but with 2 of you working you can't always both get the time off. It's exactly these families who can't afford the huge increase in the cost of holidays in peak times, and are in jobs where time off can be difficult. (and I speak as one who was 198th on the Leave List, with a DH who wasn't allowed time off in a week with a Bank Holiday, until 5 years ago!! )

We took our kids out of school for a week in February. This is the first (& only!) time we've done it. We had never been away for a "proper' holiday & now our eldest is 17 we thought it would be our last chance. We'd planned to go in half term but by waiting for 4 days we saved well over £1000!! How can they justify such a huge price increase in February?!

We asked permission, got the third degree from all 3 secondary schools (who then checked the kids attendance & found they hadn't missed a week between them since age 11) & grudgingly allowed us to go.

It's interesting though that the Blairs (who aren't short of a bob or too, AND get a close-down in August) aren't subject to the same rules, and regularly take their kids away during termtime.

[hmb]

I sympathise with families that would find it difficult/impossible to take a holiday in the school holidays. (I've been in that position many times) I also sympathise with parents who can't afford the crazy prices. (Ditto) Now comes the BUT. I teach a class of year 11s and one family took two children out for 2 weeks holiday immediatly after half term. They came back on the Monday and started sitting their modular GCSE exams. Not mocks, the real thing. They missed 2 weeks of valuable revision. Both are estimated a D or less. Neither do homework, and when I pointed this out to their very nice, friendly parents they looked shocked. Could it be the reason that the kids have no value on education because their parents show so little value themselves?

In many, many cases the kids never bother to catch up missing work, even when I set aside my free time at break and lunchtimes to help them. Taking kids out of school in term time sends a powerful message.

[codswallop]

Nutcracker - who do you think had to photocopy the sheets and arrange it allin advance?

you all know I am very anti - the parents always complain on td days let alone if the staff gadded off for weeks

if it is a simple case of cost I think dont go - I cant afford to go to say barbados in Januray - or the usa in august so I dont - I cut my cloth accordingly!

Ithinkt he point is that the finger is always pointed at lower income parents who often let their kids skive to do child care for younger siblings, whereas a middle class hoiday s seen as educational!!!

IMO if you cannot afford to go to center parcs in the holidays go somewhere else - we can all vote with our feet!

[codswallop]

Hav er e read, charlize... think you have made a sensible decision

[Ghosty]

Coddy ... I am with you ...
It is all very well going on holiday when you can afford it but when you have a class full of children going off at different times of the year and parents asking you to prepare work for them it really used to PISS ME OFF!

Go on holiday if you want but don't ask the teachers to do more work ... they have enough to do ...

[codswallop]

go teachy go teachy

[Ghosty]

[Hulababy]

Some good points from the teachers there ... here here! And there was me being diplomatic after the last heated thread on this!!!

[nutcracker]

If we didn't go on holiday in school time then we wouldn't be able to go at all because of the higher prices. I don't expect the teachers to provide all the work that would be covered in class whilst my child was away. Any relevant work to hand would be o.k. On the two occasions that i have taken dd1 on holiday in school time she has kept a diary of what she has done each day and made a collage of all the things that she saw and did. Holidays can be educational too.

[PamT]

By forcing people with children to take all their holidays out of term time the prices are being pushed up and up, parents don't have a choice - if they want to go, they have to pay.

This is also putting a huge strain on the workforce as every working parent wants to take time off during school holidays. Are businesses supposed to shut down so that all the parents can take time off in school holidays or will parents have to queue up for a turn at having the school holidays off?

The only way to beat the price rises would be for the government to implement some sort of price limiting policy. Either that, or stagger school holidays in different parts of the country much more so that not everyone wanted to go at the same time.

We can't afford foreign holidays anyway but are still affected by the higher campsite rates during school holidays ("peak season" ). I do, however, sympathise with teachers and don't generally take my children out of school unless it is something really special. Last year they had the last day of half term off so that we could go to Whitby to see the Endeavour coming home, DS2 had just finished his SATS and there was little going on at school being the last day so I didn't feel bad about it.

[hmb]

I was very amused to see how pany children had been given the day off school to see the 'Historic' return of the England Rugby team. I wondered at the time how many of them could tell you how many points you get for a try and a conversion.

Holidays are very important, and some can be educational. But for many kids they get to sit on a beach somewhere hot and that is about it. Granted having time together with the family is very important, but it isn't educational. The two kids I wrote about missed all the revision time I could give them. I estimate that each of them will be a grade lower than they might have been. Was their holiday realy so educational that it was worth getting a D in science instead of a C?

The Curriculum is so large that going away for 2 weeks mean that a child will miss 4 lessson out of 12 within a module, so a third of a module. (6 Modules for a GCSE) I can't teach the kids what they have missed when they return in ordinary lesson time, it isn't possible and wouldn't be fair to the rest of the class. I set aside my free time to help them catch up, but they seldon make any effort. After all, haven't they just been shown that enjoying yourself is more important that working at school?

[fisil]

It does annoy me when parents take kids out during term time, because (as has already been said) you wonder what value they put on education, and what message it is giving to the kids.

Twice I have been happy to provide work. Once the parent told me 3 months in advance that they had booked a once in a lifetime trip to Australia, and because of needing a longer period there and the seasons, they were going in February, could I set work? The other time a kid was going to spend a month and Xmas with her family in Jamaica so that she could learn about her parents' background. Again, plenty of warning, a good reason and a clear desire (and opportnuity) to do the work.

I have to take premium rate holidays when the place is swarming with kids. So to a large extent I am jealous that my students can go off on nice hols and I can't!

[SueW]

I agree with hmb that there are lots of holidays that aren't educational.

We never take DD out of school but in the past year she has been on three holidays - to the south coast of England, to Majorca and to Switzerland. The first two weren't educational in any way IMO (although on one my niece learned to swim 5m when she had been previously terrified of the water!) but the trip to Switzerland, which was meant to be fun, was a learning experience for both of us.

DD is now obsessed with various French phrases thanks to our having to use that language, has a Swiss-German email-penfriend who writes to her in German (I translate for her using my rusty school German), learnt to ice-skate, learnt some Swiss history thanks to our being there at the time of a major event.

I know when it's been a learning experience cos we come home and want to scrapbook it. Otherwise it's just a few nice pics to stick in an album.

[codswallop]

HMb mostly they are plonked in a kids "club"!!

[tallulah]

PamT, I'm waiting for the next Govt initiative to force employers to allow time off during school holidays to anyone with children... (since they don't seem to have much of a clue what affects their "family" policies have on the working environment....)

[Tortington]

memories are priceless - unlike premium time holidays. this next year is going to be the last year we get to go away out of term becuase eldest son will be studying for gcse's and hopefully doing work experience(NVQ's. i have no shame about saying i take my children away during term time - i get permission from the school. is our holiday educational - well apart from social skills and learning a new language and how to spend foreign money - erm... nope- cant say i sit down and do any english and maths. the only reading that gets done is my me.

we have worked ( i here the violins!!) and worked and now after a decade are in a position to take the children on holiday - for many years they never went on holiday - never mind going abroad - there are so many children who would love a day out - never mind a holiday.

if the government were truly, truly interested in this initiative they would introduce some kin of tax concessios for holiday companies who equalize their prices ie. stick an extra £40pp during low season and lower the high season prices.

the govt are not interested "really" ..not at all. they have found a way of using existing policy to bring about a media circus and shamefully for a labour govt - again puting pressure n lower income families - shame on mr airy fairy blurry blairy. - yeah lets fine people who dont ask permission. ffs. who thought that one up? they must have been up alllllllll night.

"cant afford a holiday?.....let them eat cake!"

[hmb]

I agree with you about the pointlessness of the fine, either you can't afford it or it is nothing compared to the savings you make by taking the kids on holiday in term time.

But don't make the mistake of thinking that all people who take their kids out of school do so as it is the only way they can get a holiday. I've taught lots of kids who have been taken out of school to go in 5 star luxury holidays. And some get taken out for summer and winter holidays. I know a teacher who tells me that 30% of her year 10 and year 11 kids get taken out of term for 2 weeks pluss a year. And when these kids underperform in the GCSEs who gets the blame? Not the parents.

[aloha]

SueW - I personally can't think of anything more important for a child than learning to swim. It could easily save their life - which is a tad more important than a few days of schoolwork, IMO.
I think it is utterly ludicrous to impose fines. It's not compulsory to go to school at all (merely to educate) so how come you can be fined for not going?
Taking your kids away during a vital part of exam prep is totally different to taking a five, six or seven year old out of school for a fortnight. I never learned anything useful during those years - and certainly nothing vital that couldn't be easily learned at another time.
I think as a courtesy a school should be informed if children won't be present, but the idea of fines makes my blood boil.