Huntley GUILTY - 2 Life Sentences

[Rae1973]

At last he has been brought to justice, he has been given two life sentences, one for each of the girls, and Maxine Carr has been given 3 1/2 years for perverting the course of justice.

Can't believe some of the things that have come out, he has been accused of rape AT LEAST 4 times on women and was known by the humberside police to have had girlfriends under the age of 16, why on earth was he allowed to get a job as a school caretaker.

Apparantly, all this was kept from the education authority by the police.

The house where the tragedy happened is to be demolished, the soon the better.

The worst thing is he could be given grounds for Appeal, although the grounds are not yet known.

At times like this bring back the death sentence, he'll only get top of the range stuff, good food and tele in the prison, wasting our money.

Make him suffer, put him in a cell with some other men who have children then age of the little girls he murdered.

[GladTidings]

Hi Rae1973, there is a bit of debate about this going on in the Soham Trial Thread.

What do you feel about MC's sentence?

[SenoraPostrophe]

Well I'm glad he's been sent away.

However it is all very well to start saying things like "why didn't they..." after things like this happen. The police did not tell the school about the rape accusations or the underage girlfriends because he was never convicted of anything (in fact I don't think anything went to court). Can you imagine what the world would be like if the police could go around telling people about every little suspicion and every complaint they have? If there was evidence, it would have gone to court.

[aloha]

I hardly think eight separate serious allegations of child sex abuse reported to the police and social services and four separate allegations of rape by different women are 'little suspicions'! Of course these should have been recorded. It was shocking that they were not. A gross error that may have cost those poor girls their lives. I think the person who voted not guilty will be feeling pretty sick and stupid now.
And it just makes me feel even more sick about our justice system's hideous record on not successfully prosecuting rapists. Nearly all of the bastards get away with it - over and over and over again. If four women went to the police to report a rape and nothing happened, can you imagine how many he actually did rape? How many children he hurt? It explains everything, though that will probably cause even more pain to those parents who will now be in such agony. I feel sick.

[donnie]

The 12th Juror may well not have voted not guilty - in fact the likelihood is that they abstained.This is far more common in majority verdicts and even more so where very serious crimes are involved.

[donnie]

btw senorapostrohe, if you really think that 'if there was evidence it would have gone to court' where sex crimes are involved ( or many other types of crime for that matter)then you don't know much about the legal system. Where is Nicholas Van Hoogstraten right now???????

[SenoraPostrophe]

I didn't realise there were 8 separate accusations. However it doesn't change my point - an accusation is still only an accusation (though I shouldn't have used the word "little" ).

It does sound like the police cocked up in not bringing those cases to court - but I think we should be very careful not to confuse that issue with the idea that all previous allegations, whether proven or not, should be disclosed (because they shouldn't be).

[aloha]

I'm sorry, I profoundly disagree, and the police, schools and social services agree with me. Those allegations should have been recorded and made available when screening a candidate for a job involving children.

[SenoraPostrophe]

donnie - I know the legal system is an ass in rape cases. However in most of the cases that get thrown out of court or never get to court, there is little or no evidence. In many cases this is because somebody somewhere has not done their job properly, but that is beside the point. Allegations cannot become synonymous with convictions.

[donnie]

it isn't re4ally a case of people not doing their jobs properly, it's the fact that consent or lack of it is VERY difficult to determine without a) witnesses or b) evidence of violence.And also that so many rape victims are too traumatised or frightened to endure a court case and have barristers waving their underwear in court and demanding to know why they weren't wearing a fucking chastity belt.Here is just one tiny example for you - At my last school a 15 year old girl was raped at a party, would NOT tell her parents or police as her Dad is Greek and she was frightened of what he would do.So that was the end of that - her attacker goes scot free. I could go through so many instances of people who I actually know as well as the ones I've only read about.I am not having a go at you but the subject makes me so mad that I have difficulty in maintaining my composure.The odds are stacked so highly against the victims that it's a wonder there are ever any convistions at all, especially since in most rape cases the attacker is known to the victim.

[aloha]

No allegations are not synonymous with convictions but they still should have been disclosed (and it was a gross error that they were not) when a man is applying for a job with children.
Re rape, it's not lack of evidence in the vast majority of cases it is often the fault of the law Ie: you are basically not allowed to convict if a man says he believed the woman consented, no matter how unreasonable that belief - ie she was screaming, 'no, please help me. Stop' - though that is going to change. Also most rapists and I'm sure Ian Huntley is included in this, rape again and again, using the same methods, the same words the same acts and use exactly the same defence, over and over and over again. Rape experts believe that you should allow trials where the statements of several victims can be used showing this. If this could happen far fewer serial rapists (eg Huntley) would escape justice and women (and children) would be safer.

[aloha]

Rape cases are so badly handled - and the previous sexual history of the victim is still often paraded in court - that often men are let off time and time again even when there was extreme violence and where women have escaped, screaming and naked, into the street.

[GeorginaA]

"Rape cases are so badly handled - and the previous sexual history of the victim is still often paraded in court"

I never could understand that - the accused's prior form is inadmissable as evidence during the trial - it's only revealed during sentencing, so why is the victim's "prior behaviour" (for the want of a better phrase, sorry, I know it's awful) used as evidence?

[SenoraPostrophe]

Absolutely agree, Georgina - it's silly.

I do also agree that extra care should be taken when jobs with children are concerned (I made my first comment without realising how serious these particular previous allegations there were or how many of them there were). However people are occasionally wrongly accused and I feel very uncomfortable with the clamour to reveal things like allegations in cases like this. It is not necessarily true that the girls would be alive had Huntley not had the job as caretaker - he could have befriended them through his girlfriend.

But anyway, the important thing is he was found guilty and questions will now be asked.

[LadyP]

GeorginaA, it's because the victim has to prove that the accused did it and not the accused has to prove he didn't.

So, unfortunately, the poor victim's history is dragged over in court.

The accused's past is not brought up, as he is being tried on that one case, ie, whatever he did in the past should not infer that he would have carried out that particular crime he is being tried for.

[LadyP]

Forgot to add, that I am really truly saddended by this case. I feel this case more acutely than others and I think that is because that I was a mother when it all happened and can therefore truly imagine what I would feel if it had been DS

[Rae1973]

I think that alot of women are afraid to admit they have been raped these days knowing how they will be treated if they carry on with the allegations.

Initially they will be treat with kid gloves (which they need and deserve) and then when statements taken and examinations done they are left to wait to go to court and be slaughtered and have to go through all the harrowing details again in a room strangers, knowing that after all this 'The Accused' may well get off scot free and be able to do this again.

Makes the blood boil.

[aloha]

Previous sexual history shouldn't be revealed - this was supposed never to happen any more. However, judges often allow it because they are nasty, bigoted old men who presumably think women who aren't at home are obviously asking for it.

[aloha]

SenoraPostrophe, I am obviously not talking about allegations being revealed in court I am talking about accusations that have gone as far as police investigations being noted on the central computer against which schools, nurseries and children's homes check potential applicants. This register has NEVER only featured convictions. And thank God, given the pitifully few convictions there in in these cases. Would you like someone who has been reported to the police for sex crimes (including child sex) no less than TWELVE totally separate times working with your children?

[SenoraPostrophe]

Aloha - I realise that. It turns out I was arguing under a false impression.

[aloha]

I probably wasn't making myself clear - too upset and outraged that this was ever allowed to happen. Gave ds a very, very big hug before bed tonight

[morocco]

aloha - you seem to know a lot about it - could you explain to me at what point exactly the accusations end up on the police computers and are then reported to social services etc when people apply for a job? We're furiously debating it in our house.
Incidentally, and certainly not remotely a defence of Huntley or the huge number of complaints that were made against him, I know not one but several men who have had totally false allegations made against them (really truly false as in they were not even in the country kind of alibis)and I'm sorry to have to say that I think it is common for some women to throw these accusations around knowing that mud sticks. I think in this case it shows how hard it is to get a rape accusation even as far as court which is a terrible thing but unfortunately this is not helped by women who happily throw these kinds of untrue accusations around