Fuel

[monkeytrousers]

Don't get me wrong, we have a car and it has improved the quality of our lives immesurably, plus DP needs to commute 60 miles to work 3 days a week in an area with no reliable public transport.

But where is the middle ground in all this? Why aren't the public transport systems being overhauled? If we know resourses are scarse, there is a war in the middle east, that it's use is largely responsible for climate change and only higher taxes will discourage use - why do we all want more of it for cheaper prices straight away and are prepared to mess up peoples already stressful lives considerably in the process?

[monkeytrousers]

And even more worryingly there may be a natural gas shortage in the winter due to Katrina as US demand outstrips supply. Time to go out and buy some electric heaters!

[tallulah]

Er.. because we seem to be the only country who gets affected this way? .. because without a car we can't get to work? .. because fuel has gone up so much that we are now spending more than we earn and can't see a way out of it? How's that for starters?

[PeachyClair]

Becasue we have no choice but to drive, coz there is no public trnasport with DH's shifts? And becasue he works in the transport industry, no-one more local is hiring coz of the fuel costs.

Because some of us have SN kids and can't use public transport easily anyway.

[munz]

erm because I work in a rural location on a farm and haveno choice but to drive. besides which our busses run every 2 (yes TWO) hours and the trains to the nearest town are again every 2 hours, local trains are a lot longer - and we're lucky for a village some around here don't even have that. a village I lived in in yorkshire was even worse busses we're twice a day either that or 8 mile walk to the nearest 'town'

[moozoboozo]

I have no choice either, as my one of my jobs relies on me going out late at night (and spending a fiver on a taxi would eat into my wages considerably) and my other bobs involves me transpotrting loads of equipment to the next town, which woul be impossible to do on the bus. I wish I could get rid of my car, but I can't really. I agree that the govt should be overhauling the public transport network, but they are slapping people who genuinely need their cars where it hurts.

[monkeytrousers]

I know! It's not a personal attack on people using cars. I wouldn't begrudge anyone that! It just doesnt make sense, thats all..if there is a crisis, why isn't the government acting? Why is public transport still utterly sh*t?

(But then not alot makes sense to me theses days..as you can probably tell)

[muminlondon]

Let's face it, oil is going to run out. I was looking at the plastic toys cluttering up my house - unbiodegradable, toxic when burnt. That's a byproduct of oil, isn't it? Our economies are built on oil, governments are in the pay of oil producers, and/or most oil producing companies are run by undemocratic regimes (not referring to the US here but Saudia Arabia!).

Is it THAT difficult to find alternative fuels? What about hydrogen cells? It's got to be done at some point - probably through economic pressure, rather than to save the environment .

[tabitha]

I think that a lot of the problem is that people have been encouraged/forced/allowed (whatever the reasons) to live further and further from where they work - I mean, how many people do you know that live within walking/cycling distance of their work? As a result, when fuel prices rise and rise, they are absoltuely snookered.
Also public transport, even when it's good as it is where I live, is shockingly expensive, incredibly overcrowded and not widly reliable either. I often get the train to work, but a return ticket for a 25mile (each way) journey is over £8, the trains are often late (sometimes don't turn up) and you're lucky if you get a seat. Sometimes its so crowded, you don't even get on the train. Also, public transport uses fuel, so when fuel prices go up so ultimately do fares.

[nikkie]

buses round her cost £1.20 to get to town or 60p to park, which do you choose?
or 1 hr to get to work on the bus or 15 mins to drive?
IT crp buses.
And next year they are closing part of the railway (the bit which shortens journeys ) making it an hr by bus extra on the journey!

[melissasmummy]

There is an alternative fuel. My uncle in Australia has a car that runs on LPG (gas). As do a lot of the cars over there. I am not going to pretent I know ANYTHING about it, but if the Aussies can do it, why can't we?

[sansouci]

i saw a guy in a solar-powered "car" last week. cool.

[melissasmummy]

Buses run on gas too. Why can't we investigate the idea for cars? It's also more eco-friendly.

[Tortington]

there are already electric cars on teh market - however the cheaper ones dont do the milage i would require to do a single to manchester - where i could then plug it in - are there leccy plugs in petrol stations for these cars does anyone know?

besides the one i could have second hand is over 6k i simply cant afford it.

i suggest that the reason there is no major commercialisation of such technology is becuase it isn't politically or financially prudent for britain and america.

my job is my car i travel anywhere between folkestone reading and portsmouth even public transport cant help me out. when i go to london i use the train - but thats becuase i am a londonaphobe car wise rather than for any green reason.

[Caligula]

I'm sure I've seen LPG stations in petrol-garages here. But very few and far between atm.

The problem with current public transport, is that it is very much designed for able-bodied single people not carrying very much.

Anyone who is slightly frail, carrying lots or with children, is trying to use a form of transport not designed for their physical needs.

And added to which, they are treated like a bloody nuisance when they have difficulty trying to overcome the emcumbrances which are a result of the design which doesn't address their needs.

To say nothing of the sheer expense of it. For the price of a trip to the sea-side on public transport, I can take my children on about 6 or 7 day trips in the car. When I didn't have a car, we simply didn't go out anywhere that wasn't in walking distance very much - it was simply too difficult and stressful with a pram.

If all that changed, I'd reconsider my determination to stop buying food before I'll stop buying diesel!

[PeachyClair]

You can get LPG here, you have to have your car converted (I think a couple of K?), but as long as you keep hold of the car it's a solid financial investment. You do need to find a garage that stocks LPG near you, but they are becoming more common. It's something we want to do long term, but we'd need to have a car worth keeping hold of first! Our Proton is a lovely thing for what we paid, but too small to last very much longer, and we can't afford to buy a bigger one (neither have we the foggiest where we would park it).

DH used to cycle to work but the only job he could get after being ill was many miles away. We looked at moving near there when I got an offer for Bristol Uni, but the housing was unaffordable so I'm studying where we can afford to live (Bristol would have been nice, obviously!. We spend a ridiculous percentage of our income of work petrol, but it woul still cost more to find a house large enough for us inner city.

I don't drive now; I did, but I know my eyes are not safe so I gave up recently. I could probably get glasses stronger than the ones I have, but it's unaffordable. For years I caught a bus each day at 7.15 each am with toddlers (when I started, 6 months and 20 months)- nightmare! No seat belts so DS1 was forever banging his head, buggy spaces don't take double buggies, buses running late and not turning up (night time walks in December with one child in abuggy, one on a buggy board, 7 miles and no path on much of journey: bus didn't bother to come). Wouldn't do it again. tried my best.

As well a s commuting etc we have to look at other aspects of our society too. For instance, even if we moved to the nearest housing to DH's work, he still works unsociable shifts on an out of town shopping centre: there will never be a demand for buses back at 3 a.m. from there, and it will always be too far to walk.

[beckybrastraps]

My dh drives around 50 miles a day to and from work. We paid £700 for the conversion kit and it paid for itself in a few months. You can get a map showing all LPG service stations in the country - not sure where from, will check with dh - and of course you can always use petrol if you run out. Very handy when the threat of blockades looms, as you can fill up with lpg AND petrol!

[beckybrastraps]

Forgot to say it is about half the price of petrol

[Janh]

Somebody posted here recently that LPG is priced artificially low - no idea by how much or for how long but worth finding out before shelling out for a conversion.

[tabitha]

lpg is priced artificially low because the govt take much less in fuel duty than they do for diesel/petrol. No doubt once it becomes more popular, they will 'hammer' drivers of lpg vehicles as well

[monkeytrousers]

LPG - is that liquid petroleum gas?

[monkeytrousers]

Where is is sourced from? I'm just wondering if it will be affected by the possible gas shortage this winter.

[Janh]

Yes, MT. Still an oil derivative...

[essbee]

Message withdrawn

[beckybrastraps]

Tabitha - I expect they will. I shall immediately stop extolling its virtues so we can keep it cheap for longer

[iota]

everything you wanted to know about LPG and more here