how to approach head/reception teacher about flexi schooling next year?

[nefnaf]

I am a LP and I run my own business so I am not in a position to HE full time. However, my DC and I attend a home school group on Tuesdays that I want to continue and he sees his dad e.o.friday which his dad wants to continue through his first year at school. Which would mean in an average month he would miss 6 days, every tues and every other fri.

He is barely 4 when he starts (summer born) and I know I don't have to send him at all, but he wants to go, just not full time. And I have to work, and can't afford to send him to the childminder instead. So it's full time or flexi, no other option :(

Has anyone else had this dilemma and sorted it out so that your local primary agreed to flexi? What are they school likely to say, or object to? I'd like to be fully prepared for the conversation before I approach the head of the school he's been allocated a place at.

Any advice would be great, thanks.

[Delphiniumsblue]

I think it will be all to do with money. If they are oversubscribed you don't stand a chance but if they need pupils you might. Find out the numbers before you do anything.

[ommmward]

Until your child is legally obliged to be in full time education (the term after he turns 5, so that's 18 months away), I don't think a school can stop you sending him as much or as little as you want, although they very much might not like it (because it very visibly disrupts the whole "children do best in school full time" bollox). Others will be along soon with more information I'm sure!

[Saracen]

I agree with ommmward. I have known of bolshie assertive parents who have told the school this is what they intend to do, rather than asking. You cannot be prosecuted for the nonattendance of a child who is not yet of compulsory school age, which for a summerborn child is the start of Y1. They also can't take his place away at any age) unless he is continuously absent for a very long time and they have good reason to believe he is at another school or moved away. And so ultimately they cannot stop you.

Having said that, your relationship with the school might be very strained if they feel you are challenging their authority. Worse yet, your son might catch some of the fallout. And if you have any hopes of continuing the arrangement beyond Reception, you'll need their agreement at that time because you may get prosecuted for truancy if your son is still having unauthorised absences when he is of compulsory school age.

If you are not that keen on school yet, are you sure you cannot afford an alternative? If you are able to make ends meet this year, then unless your personal circumstances change, you'll be in exactly the same boat again next year. Until your son reaches compulsory school age, he will still qualify for the preschool funding which can be used towards the cost of part-time nursery or (I think) some childminders? Also if your income is low enough to qualify for the childcare element of Tax Credits, you can apply that toward the cost of childcare, regardless of whether the child is school aged and whether it takes place during "school hours".

[Delphiniumsblue]

And it all depends on numbers. He is not going to get a place at an oversubscribed school if he doesn't start in reception.
School choice is a myth- you get a choice if not many people want it- if lots of people want it then it depends how far up the criteria you are.
Before you make any decisions find out how many places there, how many applications -and if too many applications for places how many appeals and how many are successful.
The highly assertive parents can only get away with it if they have chosen a school with places- and once he has his 5th birthday they can't.
School is a partnership with parents, you need to start it with agreement- straining it from the start isn't something I would do.
It may be possible to have an amicable arrangement but find out the popularity.
I, for one,would be furious if I missed out on a school of my choice and found out that a child who had a place wasn't taking full advantage of it. I would be phoning the education department and pointing out it was highly unfair and asking tough questions. If you haven't taken another child's place then you don't have that problem.

[Saracen]

See, I don't see it that way at all, Delphiniums. I don't equate "taking full advantage" of a school place with being in school as many hours a day as possible. Surely it should be about what is best for the particular child, and part-time attendance is what the OP feels is best for her child.

Would you feel the same if you were unable to get onto the books at your local GP surgery because of people like me who are on the GP's list but only need to see the GP a couple of times a year? Do you expect me to be "taking full advantage" of the GP's services by going in to see her even when I don't actually need medical help?

Part-time school attendees create smaller class sizes and free up the teacher to pay more attention to the children who are actually there. In what way is that selfish? The OP will not be "taking another child's place" if she sends her son to school part-time. She will be taking up her own child's place, the place to which he is entitled, and using it in the way which is best for him, which may involve him going part-time.

[Martorana]

The OP's child would not be depriving another child of a place- he will just be using the place in the way that best suits him. (Well, the way that best suits the family- he may have his own views in the not too distant future!)

I insisted on half days for my ds until he was 5- and he did 4.5 days from then to the end of reception-my mother was frail and lived a long way away an we went to visit every Wednesday afternoon.

I put it to them in very polite and reasonable terms, but as a fait accompli.

I was prepared to try and do the same thing again for year 1, but ds didn't want to- he wanted to be at school every day by then. He still has very happy memoirs of us running away from school every Wednesday afternoon, though!

[Delphiniumsblue]

You are missing my point, Saracen, probably because you don't use schools and don't understand the funding.
You are also missing the competition for places in good schools. They put thousands on house prices, people 'find God', people try and cheat the system by renting! He is not 'entitled' to a place in a particular school, he is entitled to a place in a school- two very different things.
That is my only comment- find out because if there are spaces she is fine but if it over subscribed she is not.
I would raise lots of questions if the place I wanted was taken by a child who was missing for large chunks of the week. It is unfair.
It is also not freeing up the teacher- it is making his/her job harder having to continually catch him up-art if the reason for stopping term time holidays.
I know this is a HE question. It it really needs those who have experience of the school system and how it works.
It is absolutely nothing like a GP. I moved 3 years ago and haven't met mine! She is not having to catch me up. If I go with a problem it is exactly the same as dealing with those she sees regularly- a skin rash treatment doesn't depend on how often she sees you!

[Delphiniumsblue]

You may find the child is like Martorana's. I thought school was the best thing ever at 5 yrs and would have liked to have gone weekends too! I would have hated to have been taken out and missed things!

[Martorana]

"Large chunks of the week"?

I think the OP said 6 days a month............

[Delphiniumsblue]

6 days of the month to have to be given individual attention to catch up what is missed.

[Delphiniumsblue]

We are splitting hairs- the only point that counts is my first one- it hinges on competition for places.

[Delphiniumsblue]

Maybe HEers don't understand the fierceness of the competition these days.

[Delphiniumsblue]

People are having to do with what I don't agree with- get their child in the school nursery early to be assured a place. It is that bad!

[Martorana]

Delphiniums- how would you feel, hypothetically, about a child whose health needs meant they could not attend school full time?

Oh, and I don't think schools are allowed to have attendance at their nursery as an admissions criterion- check before you do anything drastic.....

[Saracen]

Delphiniums, could you explain the funding issue to which you refer? You're right, I don't understand. I was not aware that schools were penalised financially for the low attendance of children on roll. If you could point me to an example of a funding formula or other reference to this, that would be fantastic.

I'm not convinced that a Reception child needs all that much help to catch up with other children after being absent on a particular day. Are four year olds taught in such a linear manner? That does surprise me.

And if the child struggles in general (because of finding reading difficult, for example, and not because of having missed out on something specific) then surely one-to-one help at home from parents is more effective than spending those hours at school with a 15:1 or worse ratio of children to adults?

[Delphiniumsblue]

It is not that easy to find it and it is not straightforward. Try this
Basically a primary school child brings approx £3,300 to the school per year but not too sure about the under 5's. A teacher may love to have a small class ,but economically the school need a class full to capacity, you still need the most of the same overheads whether you have 15 children a class or 30 children- in terms of a teacher, TA, electricity, heating etc.
A child who is not full time won't come with the full time funding.
Whether the need to catch up, miss things etc is irrelevant. The only consideration is whether the school is over subscribed or not.
Since my youngest is 23 yrs I don't need to check, Martorana! All I know is that newspaper reports say that children are starting school nurseries at an ever younger age because parents are scared of missing a school place.
Those who are not using schools or whose children have not started probably do not realise the competition for places and believe that you have choice! You have choice if plenty of spaces.
Estate agents certainly understand the competition- so do those wanting to buy a house in the catchment area of a popular school - they will pay substantially more.
My only point is that OP needs to do her homework- a school with space will be much more cooperative than one without. It there is huge competition for places parents who miss out are going to be very unhappy if a place is taken by a child who is not making full use of it.
Everything boils down to money.

[Martorana]

The parents thinking that being at the school nursery gives them priority are mistaken.

There is a significant difference in funding implication between part time schooling and flexi schooling. A flexi schooled child is in full time education, it's just that some of their sessions are taken elsewhere. There is precedent and bureaucracy to accommodate this.

[Delphiniumsblue]

There may well be but not all schools want to get involved with it- if they are oversubscribed and don't need to. If they are undersubscribed they may find it adventageous. I am not arguing - just pointing out OP needs to find out.
It is why schools don't want you to deregister. It is nothing personal, just that if you remove your child at the end of year 3 you have wiped the best part of £10,000 off their budget unless they fill the place.

[Delphiniumsblue]

They may be mistaken but they are doing it! Maybe it gives them an edge if they fill all the criteria. If the nursery has a lovely, well behaved, eager to learn child they won't want to lose them!

[Artandco]

Delphin - what do you think they need to ' catch up' on at 4 years old? They are only learning basic numbers/ letters/ reading at that age. 6 days off where he's still being taught that anyway just elsewhere is going to make no difference.
My 3 year old can already read and write. If he didn't step foot in a school until he's 6 I doubt he would be behind. What would he have missed?
Most children in The rest if the world don't start school until nearer 6 years anyway. In Sweden 6-7 years. By age 10 all Swedish children are at the same level I not ahead of English counterparts.

[Martorana]

"They may be mistaken but they are doing it! Maybe it gives them an edge if they fill all the criteria. If the nursery has a lovely, well behaved, eager to learn child they won't want to lose them!"

I'm sorry to go on, delphiniums, but that is NOT how state school admissions work. It just isn't. And suggesting on a thread on here that it is is dangerously misleading.

[morethanpotatoprints]

What on earth would they have to catch up with?
Why would the teacher have to do this if the child was flexi schooled?
Considering that one to one in a H.ed situation you can learn in 2 hours what would take all day in school, no child will be behind from part H.ed and school.

[Delphiniumsblue]

It is a complete red herring to get onto whether they miss things etc. I haven't really expressed an opinion on it. I am sure it is fine from the child's point of view- just more work for the teacher on record keeping, if nothing else.
It isn't my point. Some schools are over subscribed and at least one in 8 didn't get their first choice this year, see report
I can't see why a school would contemplate flexi when they are over subscribed. It is up to individual heads, I know a child who did it but the first school they approached rejected it. People play the system- as seen in the article.

[Delphiniumsblue]

Of course if a school is highly oversubscribed and everyone in the catchment can't get a place they will go for those already in the nursery first. If you have 2 children equal distance from the school and one place it will go to the one in the nursery.

[Delphiniumsblue]

I am sure that when people are deregistering from school they think the head is anti HE rather than seeing at least £1100 a year slashed from their budget- money probably already spent! That is why SATs are important to the school, they need to be high in the league tables to attract parents. Marketing a school is big business - Heads need them full to maximise the budget( they never have enough money even if full).
That is why people play the system. I had a friend who wanted her child at the church school, it was so heavily subscribed that going to church wasn't going to be enough and she had to get actively involved. Had the school been under subscribed she needn't even have attended church.
OP needs to understand this and find out the state of her chosen school. Anything else is irrelevant.