Pathways into IT or Maths degrees

[HisMum4]

DS is autistic and has a statement. He wants to do Maths, Further Maths and Physics as A levels (as these are his best and "easy" subjects), in order to do Maths, or Computing, or Engineering at University.

With his IGCSE results this seem to be falling apart. He got Bs instead of predicted A* and seem not being able to meet his 6 form offer.

We are really at loss what route to take, given his ASD.

The thing is because of his ASD, his difficulties with interaction and communication, DS would struggle in those mid level service jobs in which normal people thrive. He needs something very technical, but doesn't seem to have the grades for it.

What went wrong? Not clear. Mostly nerves. DS underperforms under pressure. Not good at exams. Not good at explanations in those science exam papers.

What is DS good at, what does he enjoy? Playing Minecraft, working on the computer. He learned to program.

What other routes are there into Maths and Computing degrees?
How to come back from a set back at GCSEs?

[TheSporkforeatingkyriarchy]

Other than looking into other sixth forms that will accept his grades, first step is asking what he wants to do with a Maths or Computing or Engineering degree and seeing how that would work with his abilities and what paths are there to get there. Many neurotypical young people will be going through the same thing right now, a deep breath and some reassessment of goals and abilities is the first step for all of them.

[noblegiraffe]

Talk to his sixth form before writing it off completely. If he needs an A to do maths but he was predicted an A* and was close to an A, they may make an exception. There are GCSE maths (and English) resits in November if he wants another shot at it and thinks it was just a bad day. His being statemented may give him some leeway.

However, if he is bad at exams, then he also risks bombing his A-levels. Would a vocational route with coursework suit him better? If he wants to do Engineering then BTEC might support that. Something like this stemacademy.org.uk/btec/? Maybe look to see if there is a STEM school near you?

[WhereforeArtThou]

Surely, B's at gcse are ok for most sixth form colleges. It certainly is for our local one.
My DS does computer science at University. It's very, very different from IT even though the two areas of study are often linked together. INFO HERE. Basically computer science is maths.
Most universities have computer science courses so you will be able to find a wide variety of entry grades. You don't need to do 'computing' at A'level although, I suppose, it would help show you have an interest. Computer Science degrees typically have lower entry requirements than pure maths degrees. (You have to be wary of some of the stats due to some sources combining all types of computing/software and IT courses)
My son did a HEADSTART COURSE in computer science which he found to be really useful. Headstart offer courses in all sorts of Stem subject. (science, technology, engineering and maths subjects). They even offer broad based courses if you are not sure what to do.
My son loves his course and finds it really interesting.
Good luck for you son. It's always a bit dissapointing when they get lower grades than you expect but B's at gcse shouldn't hold him back at all.

[OneLittleToddleTerror]

I want to say something along the same line as wherefore. There are many careers in IT that are not extremely academic. (Which is i assume why you think you need a* in GCSE). Computer science is not IT. I work as a software developer and all my colleagues in development are the ones you are thinking of. Degrees in computer science, or maths, physics and engineering. We don't call ourselves IT. We are a product group, making products and services for the company we work for. IT on the other hand supports the running of computer and network infrastructure. I would guess very few computer science graduates go for the IT jobs.

The thing is actually the pay isn't actually that different between IT and development btw. Just because the pathway to get there is more academic for one doesn't mean you get better pay in the end.

IT has people like Microsoft engineers, cisco engineers (networking), database administrators (oracle etc). I don't know how you get into the field. I know the one at my DH work went to Southampton Solent! Hardly the beacon of academic success. But he's good at his job. I don't know if a degree is even always necessary. Do you know anyone doing this for a living? Can you ask for advice from them?

[OneLittleToddleTerror]

I mean most developers have degrees in computer science. It's the older ones like me who have other STEM degrees.

[OneLittleToddleTerror]

And I doubt all of them have a* GCSEs. Have you check the entry requirements of the universities?

However it is actually a very people's job. Something you might not be aware of. You work as a team and have to deal with stakeholders. (Not all have to be external customer that's why I say stakeholder). I much prefer internal ones, and definitely not sales! They are a PITA.

[MillyMollyMama]

I actually think the bigger problem is that some universities consider further maths as a half A level and would expect another subject. Many other candidates will have this. Also going from B grades to A levels in these subjects puts any child at a disadvantage against the ones either As and A*s in terms of the pace of learning. Your DS might think the subjects are easy, but obviously his sen stops his results matching his abilities. Doing a degree might be a continual struggle therefore. I would speak to his school, look at alternative routes into a career and maybe look at a BTEC route. There are some universities who have engineering degrees in clearing but I would be careful about courses and universities regarding job prospects. I think there are very many young people who love their computers and programming but getting the right training and building a career on this hobby is another matter.

[WhereforeArtThou]

My DS had further maths and we weren't aware of any Uni's that didn't consider further maths as a full a level for Computer Science. In fact having further maths often seemed an advatage and can lead to lower entry requirements for the higher ranked Uni's. EG BRISTOL UNI
Further Maths isn't a requirement for most places though. The advantage of doing further maths is that you increase the chances of getting an A in your Maths A Level due to being able to juggle your modules around.

[OneLittleToddleTerror]

millymolly is right about the right universities. Computing (comp sci and IT and related) university courses actually have the highest unemployment rate. You can google it as I'm on my phone. But you do need to choose carefully. But as I say it's not the end of a IT related career just because he's not very academic.

[OneLittleToddleTerror]

And it's true there is a gap between hacking something together vs actual problem solving.

[OneLittleToddleTerror]

By the way here is a book very popular for prepping for technical interviews for developers.
www.mktechnicalclasses.com/Notes/Cracking%20the%20Coding%20Interview,%204%20Edition%20-%20150%20Programming%20Interview%20Questions%20and%20Solutions.pdf

It's from the Silicon Valley. But you can see it's quite algorithmic focused. To be successful at interviews you need to perform under pressure. Just like in exams. It's not to put you off. But just being realistic what is to be expected once you get passed the degree! I believe it is not common for other job areas to be tested on both technical skills and generic interview skills.

[OneLittleToddleTerror]

link

Ah link doesn't auto convert in mobile site. How buggy!

[OneLittleToddleTerror]

And the interview questions for development jobs would also require verbal explanation of your technical solutions. You have to be able to explain why you came to a certain decision on how to do something.

It might be the same as IT? They definitely won't have coding tests for interviews though!

[HisMum4]

We have good news. His Maths and Further Maths exams are A and A.

So he didn't bomb all exams, just sciences. He can do exams. He can even score A in sciences if he is over prepared by practicing exam papers. Otherwise he is all over the place. He would need to revise for sciences in a different way, focusing on rehearsing exam questions. Let's assume he gets into 6 form to study Maths, Further Maths, Physics, and French.

But I am still not clear where does this takes him in terms of his long term career prospects.

Could you help me to think through the scenarios?


Second tier IT/computing uni courses which lead to unemployment are certainly what he wants to avoid. He will be better served with an apprenticeship. But I think it is a bridge he will come to after his AS levels.

Are the Bs in sciences a permanent damage to uni applications? To job prospects?
Is it worth re-sitting?

Or is it necessary to re-sit English to get a B instead of a C?

OneLittle and MillyMolly seem to say that you need engineering and people skills to have a good computing career. That makes sense to me being an engineer. The question is how to develop those skills?

He could participate is extra-curricular team activities and do all sorts of efforts to develop his team work and communication skills to aim for Engineering (or good computing job) and hoping to get good A levels.

Or he could forget all science and engineering stuff, and focus 100% on maths and do all sorts of Maths activities and do programming projects during 6 form with the view to aim for a good Maths or Computing University course or an IT apprenticeship as an alternative. Could anyone suggest technical niche areas heavy on Maths?

He probably won't be able to pursue both the computing and the engineering tracks. He will also struggle to get team work and communication exposure if he does a lot of programming... The IT/Computing track will suck him into the autistic pigeonhole, where he will struggle to find jobs unless he takes an apprenticeship. Which brings back to the original plan of keeping the engineering option open.

Hence, does he need to re-sit his sciences?

[noblegiraffe]

If he got an A** in further maths then he really should be doing maths and further maths A-level. I think this would be an advantage rather than a disadvantage for a computing degree. Check out the entry requirements for some quality university courses, but I'd have thought that maths, further maths and physics would be ideal. The question would be whether he can take A-level physics with a B.

In terms of job prospects, my DH is an IT manager and hires software and web developers. He doesn't give a toss about GCSE results and not bothered about A-levels. He says he would be looking for a Comp Sci degree, and if they didn't have a Comp Sci degree he would want to see some equivalent background in coding with evidence of having worked on several projects. In terms of people skills he would need them to be able to work in and get on with a team. The better your people skills, the more likely you are to be promoted from bog standard engineer.

[OneLittleToddleTerror]

I'm glad he gets much better result than you originally feared. noble is right once you have the degree no one will look at your gcse and a level. It's the same as once you have a lot of work experience then your degree becomes not so important.

Have a look at
www.russellgroup.org/InformedChoices-latest.pdf

It's the Russell group advice on what gcse and a levels to take. It's not all set he has to take either maths, engineering or comp sci now. All three are physical sciences and if he takes the right combinations he will have a chance to apply to all courses in the area.

I'm making dinner now but will reply to your other query.

[OneLittleToddleTerror]

Blah fail linking again on phone

RG uni advice on gcse and a levels

[amothersplaceisinthewrong]

My son got a mix of As and Bs at GCSE and did Maths, Further Maths and Politics and went on to an RG uni to do a Maths degree. His sixth form stipulated that a B in the A level subject was enough

[OneLittleToddleTerror]

In engineering I meant the physical science engineering like mechanical and electrical. The linked PDF will explain the difference in the two main areas of science and what subjects you should do to have the widest choice when it comes to university applications. (Ie not cutting yourself off too early).

[OneLittleToddleTerror]

Hi HisMum what I meant by a software development career being more engineering than many realised is that, for many, a developer is someone sitting in a garage alone, writing an app for a smartphone. The lone hacker image. That is simply untrue for most who work in software development. I would guess most software professionals are hired by businesses, working in teams, to deliver complex computer solutions. Therefore it's more what you'd think an engineer does, minus the hard hat and heavy machinery. Software drives a lot of our day to day life now, for example, our banking system, our TV, our telecommunications. (I've worked in TV and telecommunications myself. But I'm sure you can imagine how much automation there is behind the scenes on everything nowadays). To deliver these systems, you need to work in teams, with good design methodologies and also plan for future maintenance and upgrades. It's not simply writing a little website or app on your own.

The degree to get into it is definitely computer science now. Not any of the other physical sciences.

As for people skills. The good news for your son is that most developers are slightly on the autistic spectrum. (I've been told it's similar in a lot of engineering and phsyical sciences fields. Hence the reputation). I haven't met your son and not sure how severe his disability is. But don't worry if it's not too social a person, very into sci fi, that kind of thing. Sure he will have to work in a team. But the team might consist of just the right kind of people for him. Hope this can put your mind at ease a bit.

[WhereforeArtThou]

That's excellent news about his maths GCSE's. What a clever boy .

There are some university open days coming up soon. How about going along to your nearest decent Uni with your son and having a look around a few of the departments. You could also have a chat with the admissions staff. They are there to help and we've always found them to be useful.

I also think it's a good idea to take kids to Uni Open days post GSCE's just to remind them of their end goal.

[Topazandpearl]

Excellent Maths results, well done to him. I agree he should focus on these. My DS did A Levels in Maths, Further Maths and Physics, followed by a Maths degree at a RG university. He was able to include some computing modules.

At more than one open day, including Oxbridge, he was told that ability in Maths is all that matters. In fact, the Oxbridge tutor said, "we don't care if you are a well-rounded individual, all we care about is how good a mathematician you are". (I then had the job of convincing DS that his personal statement DID matter!) As he is so good at Maths, he should definitely play to his strengths.

Another thought, as he has a statement, that could be referred to in his application (determination to succeed despite difficulties...etc...)

Also, he could benefit from some 1:1 support with exam technique for Physics papers. It would be worth asking at his college. Is he entitled to any exam access arrangements? Again, it would be worth asking. His college should definitely allow him to do the A Levels he wants to do.

As regards the English, I would get him to email the admissions tutors of likely universities for advice. Both DS and DD did that when they had queries and we found them to be very helpful and prompt in their replies.

Good luck, I hope it all works out for him.

[SierpinskiNumber]

TopazandPearl
At more than one open day, including Oxbridge, he was told that ability in Maths is all that matters. In fact, the Oxbridge tutor said, "we don't care if you are a well-rounded individual, all we care about is how good a mathematician you are"

This was EXACTLY what we were told. Being exceptional at maths will get you a long way in life even if you don't have the best social skills.