Is it true schools don't label G&T's until they are 7?

[karise]

Somebody at school told me this recently & at parents evening we were told she would be level 3 by the time they take SATS & they knew her abilities but would not put her in the top spelling group (of 1 child) until reassessed at Christmas
That child, I know was labelled in the term she turned 7 & is no further ahead in reading etc.
Not bothered at all about the G&T label really, just the harder spellings- what she gets now are pathetic!
She won't be 7 until August which is why I worry.
They also told us that there was no point in giving her the more difficult work now as she will just get bored in year 3 instead

[imnotmamagbutshelovesme]

My DD was put on the G&T register at 4, when in reception.

Today she has brought home year 3 reading books, she is in year 1.

[karise]

This is what I mean!
DD is in year 2 & reading year 5 at the mo

[lljkk]

What do you want school to do to extend her, Karise?
I am not criticising you, btw, I honestly don't know how a school can structure lessons to be suitable in content for such a high ability 6yo and yet technically challenging enough. You don't really want her mixing with yr5s for lessons, do you?
Is your DD happy with the work she gets? I'm not sure if there's any harm in working below her absolutely limits, as long as she's generally happy.

[drivinmecrazy]

why won't they put her into top spelling group? My 'G&T' child is in top groups for everything, she has never been assessed. To be honest, although she scored highly in the advanced SAT papers last year it has absolutely no relevance to the education she receives. if you child is really that gifted she will be given work appropriate to her level. I have learnt not to pre-judge what the school is doing with my DD and trust that she is happy, progressing at the same rate she always has been and developing in so many other areas than academia.

[wheresthehamster]

Is it the school who has mentioned G&T to you? A level 3 at the end of KS1 means your child is working at a level that is above average.

[karise]

DD just keeps saying she is bored with the spellings.
Her teacher's are actually very good at giving open ended or higher level at everything else, it's literally just that although they are telling us her reading ability suggests she needs the harder spellings school policy is that they will only assess them once per term!
DD is just unlucky to have jumped her reading ability so much within half a term.
It was the fact that they mentioned she was capable of going beyond level 3 by the end of year 2 but they wouldn't push it to avoid boredom in year 3. Surely if she is capable of it, that is the level she should be working at? It's not as if she would be the only one working at this level in the class!

[mabanana]

Give her some spellings yourself then - or get her to ride a bike, or learn to swim or read a book.

[morningpaper]

If it's just the spellings you are worried about then give her weekly tests yourself

[lljkk]

Our school generally does formal assessments in all subjects 2-4x a term, Karise, once a term sounds a bit lame. But morningpaper is right, you can give her harder spellings at home, would that not satisfy her for now?

Besides, if they are that easy, then she shouldn't need to spend long on them, so she has more time for other fun stuff, no?

I sometimes give DD extra sums or tricky spellings, which she asks for because she enjoys the interaction with me rather than because she actually craves those challenges. If she truly craved harder work, and was unhappy at school without it, I would pester teacher to set her harder work at school. Do you think your DD is unhappy in school too, because work is too easy/boring for her?

[lljkk]

ps: there are people on MN saying their children got the G&T label as young as 3yo, so I don't think 7yo is a standard age, but it is the age around when standardised tests come in, so maybe that's linked to how Karise's school organises their identification of G&T scheme.

[Fennel]

I think schools vary, ours doesn't like the G&T idea so does it as minimally as it can to satisfy Ofsted (a secret list kept at the back of a cupboard and trotted out for Ofsted, or similar, as far as I can tell). Other schools do it earlier, some schools tell parents, some don't.

I know a child in another local school who was on it from when he moved from preschool to school, but he was also put on the SN register as well. I think the parents only knew because of the SN issues.

[karise]

We do all the harder spellings at home so it's not an issue. The issue is that she is getting the wrong idea about what school's for!
If she thinks she can get full marks for her spelling tests each week without doing any work at home for them, surely she will start getting lazy at school. She already says she's bored with them & wastes half an hour a day at school having to write tem out.
As far as I can see, that is half an hour per day's education just lost until she's reassessed!
I am happy they recognise her reading ability informally but can't understand why they won't do it formally yet.
I guess I'll just have to settle for the fact that she's happy that everything else she's doing at school is challenging & keep doing the more difficult spellings at home until Christmas

[Niecie]

That's daft to only do it once a term - if she is up to it she should be put in the top stream for spellings. When she is in Yr 3 she will still be at the top, I suppose and the spellings handed out will reflect that - it isn't like they are going to run out of words to spell.

When you say she is bored with the spellings - does she actually like spellings? I only ask as spelling tests are boring on the whole so I wouldn't use that as a reason for putting her up.

Is it not a good school as well? I would be a bit concerned that they don't know what to do with children who reach Level 3 in the SATS. In DS's school more children than not reach level 3 and they don't have any trouble at all stretching them in the Juniors.

[karise]

That's interesting!
DD does enjoy spellings & delights in telling me she got them all right again this week so it's unlikely.
Do you think it is normal to have lots of level 3 pupils in year 2 then? I thought DD's schools aim of having 2 or 3 by the end of the year was normal
We are a good school with an outstanding ofsted report though

[Fennel]

In our school about 1/3 of them are level 3 by the end of yr 2. School got a "satisfactory" ofsted, I'm not sure the ofsted rating has much to do with the SATS results.

[Niecie]

I don't know about normal but I would be a bit surprised if normal meant only 2 or 3 in a year who reached level 3 (depending on how many in a year, of course).

For something like reading DS's school would have between 50% to 60% reading at level 3. I am not suggesting all school should be like that as it is an outstanding school and we are very lucky but 2 or 3 in a year doesn't sound like very many and it is not surprising they don't know what to do with those 2 or 3 pupils.

I am not sure that the Ofsted report and the Sats results have much in common. You can have an excellent school with fantastic teaching but not have great SATS result due to the mix of pupils, e.g. a high proportion who don't speak English as a first language.

I was a bit about a school who spends half an hour a day on spellings as well. No wonder she is bored. DS brings his spellings home every week - we work on them for half an hour to an hour depending on whether he is having a good week or not and then they get tested at school. That is all they do on them. It is ususual not to get 9 or 10 out of 10 too as they should have done the work.

Of course none of this helps except that if the school is not providing hard enough work for your DD then it sounds like you are going to have to keep pushing as they won't give it to her as a matter of course.

[Fennel]

Maybe the dd is exaggerating that they spend half an hour a day on spellings. My dd of this age is liable to exaggeration.

National averages are something like 25% of children achieve level 3 at the end of yr 2, in literacy and numeracy.

My children have been in schools graded outstanding, good and satisfactory. We have seen very little difference in terms of teaching, activities, general overall experience of the school. The current one was satisfactory cos it was a little village school transitioning into full primary and changing head. In practice, it's lovely and most of the parents and children adore it. And the results seem fine.

[Niecie]

I agree 25% is fine.

I don't really get hung up on SATS anyway except that karise's school seems to have a problem handing out work at the right level and the lack of Level 3's might explain it - it isn't the norm for them.

[lijaco]

Schools don't really like to label any children.........?

[lljkk]

Wow! That's interesting about the 25% as typical, it's more like just 5%-10% of children get level 3s in anything, at our school. But DD (who already tested level 3 at end of Yr1, in something, not sure if that was just literacy or maths too) and 4 other girls like her, are doing literacy with yr3-yr4s, so I think some schools can manage a range of abilities.

[christywhisty]

I didn't think level 3 by the end of year 2 is that unusual. DC's primary is a lovely school but only just above average and about a third of the them got 3 in one subject.

Also level 3 covers a big range, so there can be a huge difference between a child that is only just a 3 and one that is near the top.

[lljkk]

I just dug out the report sheet when DS1 did SATs in 2007. That mentions the following percentages as 2006 national averages, for children getting level 3 at:

Speaking and listening: 22%
Reading: 26%
Writing: 14%
Maths: 21%
Science: 24%

So for level 3 in 2006, the typical % is more like 20%, which feels signif diff (to me) from 25%. Was it much different in 2007 or 2008 results (anyone got them)?

Our school, only managed an average of about 4.5% getting level 3 in 2007. I bet the average MNetter school is more like 35%!

[lljkk]

Ooh, or are you all saying that 25% of children get at least one level 3?

[alleve]

My advice to anyone worrying if their children are being challenged to their ability in school is this. Give them books to read at home the more the better, it helps enormously and books are enjoyable.

Don't worry too much about the spellings being easy, or the reading books not being at their level. Mention at parents evening what they read at home.

[Kammy]

Just a comment on the more difficult work bit - I think the school is a bit lame to be honest!
My ds' school does not have a g&t program and are very careful not to ever use the term....even though ds got a level 3 for maths in Year 1 - they use words like 'exceptionally able'.

However, the point is this - now in year 2 he gets maths extension which is mixture of what the rest of the class are doing in more depth and in a problem solving framework, and time out with the special needs teacher who is trying to assess his level. It should be perfectly possible to offer extension work within what the rest of the class is doing, and any good teacher should be able to organise this. My ds is capable of Year 6 maths, and does get some activities at this level, but of course the school cant cover the Year 6 curriculum as they will have nothing left to do when he is in Year 6. However he is also perfectly happy with the extension work that he gets.

Can you speak to the teachers about some extension work?