Just been told that dd1's problem might be because she might be "super" intelligent. Why does this not feel good?

[Wills]

You'd think we'd feel proud but unfortunately at the moment it feels more like a bloody curse! We've been having problems with dd1 and her school for the last 9 months (i.e. ever since she started at this junior school). Its been awful! Every week has been a new complaint from boredom to can't do it, to her friends not playing with her. Finally I started to think she was being bullied. Unfortunately I didn't seriously intervenne in time and she spent a whole week of sick in pure fear of going in to school. I've been into the school loads and loads and with some very helpful mums on here wrote a fab complaint letter to the head etc. The school feel that she's a very average student and that is a little too delicate. I'm furious that my child that would once eat books and live in imagination now resents books because she's teased about them, is desperate to fit in and has been put on anti depressants. To support me my dm offered to pay for a couple of sessions with a child psychologist. We've been to the first session and his conclusion is that all of our issues have the classic hall marks of a bright child being seriously frustrated at school. Its all very well for him to deliver this conclusion but what now. In his opinion he doesn't feel that she will suit LEA schools at all and that she needs far more individualised teaching with higher teacher ratios. He's suggested we hunt out a Montessori school and send there. Well that's ok then isn't it. But number 1 we've no money for private schooling and number 2 even should we suddenly win the lottery there's no primary level montessori in the county in which we live.

I do feel we need to move her from this school as they have let her down terribly regardless of whether she's "gifted" or not. But I just don't know where to. How will I know that the same troubles wont start all over again?

Would love some help/guidance

[tortoiseSHELL]

Wills, this sounds just like my BiL who really did have problems at school - my MIL describes it as having the 'cleverness of a 18 year old, but the maturity of a 3 year old' (obviously this isn't exactly the case with your dd).

Are there ANY other schools she could go to? My BIL really turned a corner when he changed schools, had a clean slate, and ended up getting a 1st from Cambridge and a PHD from Oxford. His school said he was 'mentally subnormal btw!!! But the head at his new school said something like 'It's lovely to have you here, you're clearly no trouble to have in a school' which gave him something to live up to. Obviously it took much more to sort out, but I think that was a turning point.

Otherwise, could you HE? (I suggest that really tentatively, as I certainly couldn't do that, I just don't have the patience!!!). Or, is there somewhere she could go to challenge her intelligence? Maybe something outside school so she can get a fresh group of friends?

Sorry she and you are having a bad time, and sorry I can't be more help!

[TheProvincialLady]

What a horrible situation for you. I am a bit at the EP you have paid for though - surely he should be offering suggestions that are within your budget/local area, not pie in the sky ideas? In your next session can you make him write a plan based on your actual situation?

[SenoraPostrophe]

if she's being teased for liking books then it's surely not necessarily a case of a frustrated super bright child, but just of a bright child in with a bad crowd?

I was bullied at this age and I remember feeling physically sick at the thought of going in sometimes. I got over it on my own, (luck rather than skill) but can't help thinking that a simple change of class might help? did all her friends from her previous school go to this school?

[lijaco]

Maybe you could change schools? How old id your dd1. The earlier you challenge the problem the better and it may be that you may have to keep going in. He who shouts loudest. Don't give up. It seems to be that schools are deaf on both the top and bottom scales regarding learning needs. Kids with difficulties and kids with capabilities.

[CantSleepWontSleep]

Are you not in Herts any more Wills? There is at least one Montessori in the county if you are.

[Heated]

What did your dd do well in that led the child psych to conclude she was super bright? Can it not be used as evidence with the existing school or any school that you move her to?

[Wills]

Hi TortoiseShell!

Cantsleepwont.... nope, gone to East Kent to live by the sea otherwise yes there's that school in Barnet.

I do feel that there is a need to change schools. They think that her stats were completely wrong (and there was us thinking that they were slightly low (3 and 2a) and that it was a friendly infants simply pumping them too high. Anyone who meets my dd is blown away by her ability to read, speak, write etc. (Maths is another matter mind you). The head has gone as far as saying that dd is simply needy because I've had three children which always makes the first child feel left out. Wont go on too much about him and his reactions to this cos this thread is not about that but I do feel that we need to change schools. BUT.... she's a "millenium" baby and it appears that there was a boom in the millenium (why? I simply don't get but there you go). All the schools are full so getting her into another school involves either waiting for a place to come up OR appealing both of which are don't immediate solutions.

Then if we did manage to change schools how could we ensure it didn't happen again?

Arrrrgggghhhhh

[Wills]

Oh and dd1 is 8 (Year 3)

[Wills]

Heated hi, he's based his conclusion on her behaviour and the issues we're going through. We're both confused because although I've always felt that her school was underestimating I always assumed that a) all parents feel that about their child and b) that I wasn't the expert in this field. He's suggested that we go for cognitive testing but that would cost us 600 quid. Not being funny but what would that give us? We can't force the school to change their behaviour and we can't use it in an appeal so where would it get us. We don't have 600 quid to spend on such a thing and to be honest both of us are a little skeptical as we've not seen what he's seeing. She's bright but I'm not sure she's on the level of "super" bright.

[tortoiseSHELL]

There's nothing wrong with 3 and 2a!!!! Isn't 3 the highest you can get at Y2 anyway?

[PotPourri]

can you home educate? Schools don't and can't cater for all levels of ability. How on earth could they when there is a 30:1 ratio? If she is very bright, you could either get some proof and get her moved up - although you say the school class her as 'average' so that might be a struggle.

But I personally think the answer is to challenge her other ways - Home education is the best way to get back that girl who loves reading, and learns quickly, at her own pace etc etc. But if you can't do that, then supporting her in other ways outside school - i.e. not pressuring her to do homework, but supporting her to learn about things that interest her can restore some of that passion for learning that she had.

I think people often blame the school for not helping the child, but they are only one small part of the picture - she is with you so much more time. And let;s face it, your support is of much greater value to her than anything the school can do.

[Heated]

So, to recap:
Private not an option, too expensive.
Options are a change of school or current one.

What would it take for dd to be happy at this the current one?

Would it be any better for her next year moving up a class?

Re: your 1st post, what is she finding boring and what can't she do?

Changing schools: Do all your local schools take 30 in a class? A friend of mine has a bright but bositerous ds & she has deliberately chosen a primary that takes only 18 students a year so he gets the attention he is going to need.

I know it's a way off and doesn't solve your immediate needs, but grammar school at 11 may well suit your dd very well, would Canterbury ones be your nearest? I don't know E Kent very well, t'other side more familiar to me.

[Wills]

Potpourri, most of me agrees with you wholeheartedly. I mean during the spring break she was with me full time and during that time I worked with her and "got her back". I have thought about HE her but I'm currently trying to start up a part time business whilst she and her sister are at school and her baby brother is sleeping simply to pay that extra bit on the mortgage that would take us from struggling to ok. I just don't see how I could take on her education as well . although I must say I've given it a lot of thought. Also I'm not trained. We argue enough over her blasted homework. In terms of learning at her own pace, if its something she wants to learn she rapidly outstrips me. If she wants to learn something she goes at it until she is definitely an expert. For me the frustrating element is giving her passion in areas that so far she's not so keen i.e. maths. The psychologist suggested that her difficulties with maths is due to that fact that she's not learnt how to learn. In a weird way that makes sense to me. I've always said the reason she doesn't like maths (and remember that despite not liking it and refusing to put any effort into the subject whatsoever she still got a 2a) is because her English is sooooo easy she doesn't know how to focus to learn something. So it was amazing to have that said back to me by an "expert".

[Wills]

Hi Heated. We have 2 Grammars here so yes I'm hoping she'll go but I suspect unless she decides herself to focus she'll not go. In the meantime living with her is currently hell. She attacks her siblings because she is so frustrated and even worse I'm learning that those who are bullied turn around really quickly and bully others i.e. her siblings. Dh is home this weekend and he's horrified. By midday he was threatening to ground her for the next 20 years.

I agree with your synopsis though. Private... extremely difficult. We could do it but we would be postponing mortgage payments and really is that right on her siblings? and would it work?

[Wills]

I'm being told off - dh and I have guests and they've bought their wii and the kareoke game so I'm gonna have to go off and pay them attention - sorry. Will definitely read and come back but I may not answer properly until tomorrow.

[Remotew]

Why do you think her SATS results were wrong. 3 is the highest level they can get in year 2. 2A is above average.

The child psychologist shouldnt be suggesting solutions that are out of your reach. Perhaps some kind of cognitive ability testing as part of the assessment should have been offered then you would have had something to take into school. It is often done in the first year of secondary school. £600 sounds a lot of money for a test.

I'm sorry your DD is so unhappy at school. If HE isnt an option I would definitaly change her school. Plenty of people do. Are there any smaller state schools nearby with lower class sizes?

[Heated]

Your dd sounds like me when younger & it's easy to imagine being in her shoes. Able in all aspects of English but used to cry with frustration over maths (Dad, who had the patience of a saint, used to partly do it for me). Like your dd, I hated the fact it didn't come automatically like English did (except algebra, but that contained letters so it was ok). I used to dwell on/fret over friendship problems & could be evil to younger sibling. And I was at private school with 15 in the class. I was probably average within the group at that point.

The difference was spending two years with a teacher who just said 'I used to be like you' and I just felt she understood, having not liked & been scared of two previous teachers. She also was a bloody good Maths teacher and taught it, using what I now recognise are memory techniques, by essentially connecting the processes to stories which made perfect sense to my brain - and maybe would work with your dd? In my last year I was top in most subjects.

That's why I asked about her teacher next year as one she finds understanding will make all the difference.

[Wills]

Woa (shouldn't be here but heck)! Last year she had a fab teacher at her end of year and although she didn't rate her as "super" she did love her and dd1 seemed to just blossom. I do feel that relations with her current school are just too sour for me to have any faith whatsoever in leaving her there. But finding the right alternative school is proving difficult. She's a millenium baby which appears to mean that all the schools around here are full!

[Remotew]

Agree with Heated. The right teacher can make all the difference. If she cannot be moved then hope that her teacher for next year is an improvement. My DD had a male teacher in year 4 who used to shout at the kids. She was terrified of him and that year really set her back. Anyway to cut a long story short she started having some problems later on and she went for counselling.

Her counsellor delved into the background and could pinpoint that age (8) as being very important in a childs development and he had knocked her confidence so much. It all made sense to me then. She still suffers with confidence issues even though she is a high achiever.

Sorry for rambling on. Hope you can resolve this. I wish I had taken more notice at the time, but I tend to parent in the vein of you just get on with it.

Said teacher quit the next year and admitted to me at parents eve that perhaps he should. It just makes me so now when I look back.

[Janni]

How about a period of home ed, with a bit of extra tutorial support in the subjects where you lack confidence??

This could be a stop-gap measure to really allow you to assess her and find a school more suited to her needs, or to decide you will carry on down this route until eg secondary where she might win a scholarship and you will be saved the worry of school fees.

Your current situation sounds pretty miserable for all concerned. I am a great believer in taking action if things are not working out with a school, because children will try very hard to adapt to an unsuitable situation, simply because they do not want to be different, even if they are desperately unhappy.

[cory]

She reminds me very much of me at that age. I went to a comp where wanting to learn was not the done thing. There was no streaming, so a lot of the time would have been dead time if the teacher hadn't turned a blind eye to my reading a book of my own in class at the same time as half following the lesson (preparation for motherhood).

What helped me was my parents being able to stretch me in out-of-school hours, partly by tutoring me, but mainly by supplying me with books and letting me know that they had faith in my abilities. I learnt several foreign languages and developed a great interest in history; by the time I got to secondary school, I was better read than the history teacher.

I appreciate that HE isn't for you (wouldn't be for me, either!), but would it be possible to get a tutor in once a week to work on something that she might find interesting but isn't just an extension of what they do at school? Is she musical? Would a language be a good idea? Something where she can feel that her special abilities are being used and appreciated.

And is there any way in which she can be put in touch with other children who are interested in what they do? That would probably do a lot for her confidence. Is there a local Young Archaeologists Club? Or drama group? Or a wildlife group?

We are letting our ds join the Young Archaeologists next month when he turns 8.

[flamingtoaster]

The headmaster is simply failing in his duty to your daughter. You could contact the G&T advisor in Kent: www.kenttrustweb.org.uk/ask/improvement/ask_imi_gift_contact.cfm

and explain the problem and ask who you should approach to ensure your daughter gets an education suitable to her needs.

They do seem to at least be trying to implement suitable practices in Kent: www.kenttrustweb.org.uk/ask/improvement/ask_imi_gift.cfm

They (though not your headmaster!) seem to be tackling gifted and talented through personalized learning: google.clusterweb.org.uk/search?q=cache:Vkd6EgZ0ZqsJ:www.kenttrustweb.org.uk/UserFiles/ASK/Fi le/Improvement%2520Inclusion/GiftedandTalented/KentPolicyStatementonGiftedandTalented-Educat ion1007.doc+gifted+and+talented&access=p&output=xmlnodtd&ie=UTF-8&client=defaultfrontend&site=AS K&proxystylesheet=default_frontend&oe=UTF-8

Home education would probably suit your daughter well - and the formal part takes less of the day than you would think since you are working one-to-one so progress is rapid with no distractions, and also because things you would do normally (e.g. trips to museums etc.) all count towards home education. If it's really not possible though then there are lots of stretching activities on the internet your daughter can do at home in the meantime.

Hope you can negotiate a happy outcome for your daughter - it is awful when they are unhappy at school.

[Wills]

Thanks for those links and support. I've contacted my local gifted person and am waiting for her to get back to me. I've also phoned my gp and asked him to get back to me as he was the person that originally suggested the child psych. It will allow me to clarify whether he was a child psych or an Educ Pshych etc.

[Berries]

This sounds just like my dd2 at 8. She also got 3 & 2a in y2 (but finds maths easy rather than Englsih) but I felt she was seriously underperforming. She was also becoming increasingly disruptive at school, and thouroughly miserable at home (was also being bullied but that was another issue).
She moved to another school in y4 and she is now a different child, has had offers to 2 of the top 10 schools in the country, plus out of area State grammar & scholarship to another ind. We did send her to an ind school, but I think the key was the attitude of the school, not the fact it was ind. She felt valued at the school, and as a result tried harder. The school praised highly but continually extended, so she didn't get bored. She's also a changed child at home.
Having seen the difference it would make, I would suggest putting her on the waiting list for other local schools & asking how long they think it will be until you are likely to get a place (ie how far up the list you are).
I'm not sure whether this will help, other than to say I understand what it's like.
HTH

[Frizbe]

Totally agree with Heated about the Maths, I struggled with it and bizarely since meeting a fab Maths teacher about 7 years ago now I now feel more confident in it, and also with how to teach my kids it! He's one of those people who just puts things so simply, he makes life feel great he also got two boys in his class, who'd paid no attention for the last 5 years, through a GCSE exam in 6 weeks, they went from knowing nothing and paying no attention, to learning everything they needed and passing with flying colours. Now that's what you call a teacher
I hope you find a good solution for your dd, she sounds lovely and you sound like a lovely mum