is G&T provision compulsory in primary school?

[Tommy]

that's it really and also, how do you go about asking about it without giving the impression that you are a precious parent who thinks their child is brighter than the others.....

[Tommy]

any G&T parents around?

[Tommy]

obviously not.....

[onesandwichshort]

Hello, don't want you to be unanswered.

My take on it - and I stand ready to be corrected - is that while g&t provision isn't compulsory any more, setting appropriate targets for the child is, as is stretching the brighter cohort in the class (see ofsted reports, which always bang on about this). So if that's not what's happening, you have every right to go in.

As for how you go about it, there's no real right answer to that as it's so dependent on the personality of the school and the teachers concerned. And if you genuinely have a case, you won't be seen as one of those parents. I probably am one of those parents, but don't hugely care as I'd rather DD got educated than not.

What's the problem exactly?

[TotallyBS]

Mine were G&T.

DC1 was maths. He and one other went to an off site class once a week. There were no special provisions at his school.

DC2 was put on the register for English and Music. There were no special provisions for those subjects either in the LA or in the school so it was just a feel good thing for DC2.

At the risk of being accused of stealth boasting, DS's maths was way ahead of his peers so he permanently held his spot but his partner got rotated. I don't know if anything should be inferred from this his partner was often not the (next) best at maths. Instead there seemed to be a correlation between how pushy the mum of the respective child was.

So please do approach the teacher. You could just float your interest and see if the school suggest that your DC joins the program. This way you avoid appearing to be what you wanted to avoid.

However, please be aware that some LAs don't bother or don't have the resources to offer any special provisions. Same with the school.

[Tommy]

thank you. Feel a bit embarrassed actually because I used to be a governor at the school when it was first discussed but but seems to have got lost over the years. DS2 is very good at maths but doesn't always work to his potential (he says he is bored with e.g. his times-tables HW). He is part of a small group who go to the local independent secondary school once a month for "maths club" type stuff (they have to let the scruffy kids every so often in order to get their charitable status ) so I'm guessing that's about it?
We're just having major problems with him and HW at the moment and I'm sure it's because he genuinely is questioning why he should do it. To be fair to him, I feel a bit the same way when I encounter an "easy" sudoku - would much rather do the tricky ones!
just not sure where to go with it that's all

[TotallyBS]

When DC was in primary a friend said that DS was quite bright and had I considered going private. At the time I thought that DS was bright but bright enough to pass the demanding test?

I wanted to ask the school if it was worth pursuing and, like you, I didn't want to come across as one of those parents who thought their DCs were cleverer than what they really were. I obviously didn't handle it well because that was the HM's attitude. I got a liitle speech about how you had to be really bright to get into x and was I sure I wanted to put DS under pressure?

Anyway, do want you need to do and sod what others think. To paraphrase that saying, the pushy bird gets the worm :)

[Tommy]

thanks TotallyBS - there's not a question of him going to the selective school but I suppose I just don't want him being put off studying. It's the same with his reading. Last year, his teacher knew he was keen reader and knew that he read every day so she didn't feel the need to have his reading diary signed whereas this year his teacher is insistent on it and he has lost a couple of playtimes because it's not been signed.

[onesandwichshort]

What year's he in?

I think the maths club is more than some schools will do in terms of provision, but others do plenty more. Quite possibly this is dependent on how pushy/persistent their set of parents are.

In this situation, I'd go in first and just ask some questions. How do they think he is doing? What level is he at now? What is his target for the year? Then explain the problems you are having with homework and reading, and ask what they think you should do about it. This should give you some sense of how they see him - and until you know that you can't really know what angle to take.

Then go away and think for a bit. But if you don't think they have a full grasp of what he can do, perhaps ask for his maths level to be tested. DD's speciality is reading. We eventually - after they'd messed up on what they'd promised - persuaded them to test her reading level. When she came out at several years above the class, their minds were focussed quite considerably.

I agree though that the big problem is coasting; despite the fact that DD gets various bits of extra work, pull-outs etc, it can't disguise the fact that the classwork is always easier than stuff she would choose to do at home. Haven't solved that at all.

[projectsrus]

I must say your school sounds much better than my DC's.

My DD1 is also very good at maths and has been coasting all along, we have done a little bit at home but her progress has been slow in comparison to her potential - also weirdly gifted in music, but we only found out because she successfully auditioned for a JA programme and started listening to her more carefully - school hadn't mentioned anything to us. I say weirdly as I have read before that there is a connection between music and maths.

I am considering a move to private for my daughter, who is 8 at the moment. This is after much pushing and many conversations throughout the years, where I have given up hoping things would get better and witnessing my dd getting more and more disillusioned. Sorry mine wasn't a good story!!!

[Tommy]

he's in year 5 and was on level 4A for maths at the beginning of this term and hadn't made progress since year 4

thanks for your comments onesandwichshort - I think a lot of it is a mixture of he being lazy and his teacher being a bit "jobs worth-y" if you know what I mean. It frustrates me though!

[eminemmerdale]

No it's not in my dd's school - her teacher said she 'didn't believe in it', whilst at the same time arranging for dd to be taken out of the classroom on certain days for extra tuition

[HSMM]

My DDs school asked all the parents if their child had a special gift or talent. I replied that she was a talented dancer, but they were in a better position to know if she was gifted. The school had a good eye for helping under achievers and stretching gifted children.

All schools should be aiming to educate children to their highest limit.

[onesandwichshort]

Not having made progress since year 4 is a big red flag - and should be for the school as well. It's the sort of thing that Ofsted would be down on like a ton of bricks these days, so in a way that works in your favour as if you raise it formally they really need to be doing something.

In which case, I think you've got a very strong case for going in with a very 'we are working together' kind of tone, and asking what the problem is, what you can do to help? At some point in the conversation then you may be able to tell them that he is bored.

If that doesn't work with the teacher, go to the head of KS2, but do it with a note. When 'no progress' is written down on a piece of paper, if my experience is anything to go by, they will scramble to be seen to do something.

Oh and him losing playtime because you haven't signed the book is idiotic.

[Tommy]

thank you. Will have a think, discuss with DH and work our what to do. It's always a bit tricky discussing this sort of stuff with other mums from school so it's good to get some impartial advice!

[lljkk]

Provision? We ain't got no stinkin' provision.

[Tiggles]

I don't think schools have to have G&T lists anymore, although there used to be a requirement that the top 10% of children (ie 3 per class) would be on a register.
At DSs' school they do have a G&T list, their criteria are basically which children are so far ahead of their peer group they are taught with a different class. They tend to have more in KS1 than KS2 as by KS2 'early developers' have evened out a bit, leaving only the really gifted. There are about 4% of school on their list, but has been as low as 2%.

[newgirl]

I think it's changed. My dd (now y6) was labelled in y1 and she got some challenges etc but then head said in a meeting they didn't like the scheme but would do the form filling and would continue to stretch the very able children as they always had. And they did - she was level 6 end of y5 with no big deal made of it. My dd told me she was having her own maths lessons with a couple others, but school didn't tell me. So they got on with doing g and t work without telling parents or making a big deal.

[rockinhippy]

It varies, but I was chatting with a Teacher friend recently who commented on how pleased she was that DDs school are still doing it, as she reckons many local schools are now pulling out of it. Going by what she said, its never been compulsory for schools to take part, though she did say that doesn't mean they can be slack with challenging the brightest DCs, its just the labelling that's been dropped - it explains why the year it starts varies too - we were always told DD was considered exceptionally bright, given her standing against national expected levels etc, even since reception, but G&T register wasn't mentioned until year 3 for us.

HTH

[rockinhippy]

DDs school don't make a big deal either, but do quietly provide extra challenges - got to admit having seen some of the venom you see spouted, if G&T is mentioned, both on here & even in RL I'm glad its played down