How does G&T work? Stupid question <ironic>

[PrincessOfWails]

If your child is labelled G&T, is that across all areas or is it limited to certain areas? And then, once labelled, do they keep an eye on them and see if they're doing well across the board or something?

[noisytoys]

DD is labelled G+T. It is different in all schools but in DDs school it is only children who's needs can't be met in the classroom and needs extra 1-1 help for which the school gets funding. There are 2 G+T children in her whole school but different schools have different policies

[PrincessOfWails]

I was told at DS1's parents evening that he is G&T, but is that in everything? (Surely not - his colouring in is dire.) Maths and language was mentioned, and he is getting on really well with his reading from what I can tell.

[noisytoys]

It's usually for specific subjects (unless they are all round brilliant). DD is G+T for reading, phonics and maths. She is lime level reading (age 4) and level 3 maths. All other aspects of her life she is completely normal

[Wafflenose]

It's up to individual schools to decide on the criteria, and whether they will do anything about it. It's usually the top 5-10% in each subject.

DD1 is 7.1 (in Year 2)and has a reading age of 12+ including comprehension, is Level 4 for elements of her writing, particularly structure, vocabulary and punctuation; Level 3 for all her other subjects except Science, and is working towards Grade 4 on her main instrument, and Grade 1 on her others.

In our school, she isn't G&T. In other schools, no doubt she would be.

[thegreenheartofmanyroundabouts]

It varies. Sorry.

What schools classify as G & T often isn't. We used to be members of the National Association of Gifted Children and these kids were in the top 2-3% of intelligence but they weren't all round brilliant. Some were exceptional at maths; others at science or music or art. What schools are calling G & T are children that are very bright and need extension activities. Gifted is a different ball game. Two of mine are at a very selective grammar school and love it. They don't have to hide their intelligence, which as boys they probably would have done at another school.

[Niceweather]

Our secondary has a G&T club where you get to go on trips, listen to talks and debate.

[madwomanintheattic]

I had no idea you could be g&t for phonics. How bizarre! (And possibly pointless?)

It's very different everywhere. Dd2 was gifted across the board except handwriting (she has cerebral palsy lol, and uses a laptop), and at one school we were told that to access the regional gifted programme, you had to be working two years ahead of peer group across the board. Despite being up to 7 years ahead, we were told she couldn't take part because her handwriting wasn't good enough.

Heh heh.

Tbh, the way most schools use g&t, it just means they are doing particularly well in an area. A good school will be differentiating for ability. Sadly, some schools don't appear to out much effort into differentiation at either end of the scale. Some will set out Ieps for gifted kids, and if this is the case, you should be invited in to discuss appropriate goal setting, two or three times a year, depending on age of child.

[CURIOUSMIND]

Read any other previous thread about G&T, see how many Dcs are labelled gifted in reading (eventually is not even an subject on its own)and maths!
Considering maths teaching in England is miles behind many other countries,
the G&T label is meaningless in most of the cases.
I don't think parents should be distracted by that fancy pointless label, just keep dong what you are doing well.

[iseetinselandtantrums]

We got a letter from school at start of KS2 saying DS was gifted in maths and another he is talented in sport. Afraid DH & I laughed at the second because he didn't win a race on sports day. (He doesn't know about the letters or such labels.) The letters say based on top 10% nationally. He gets differentiated work in maths lessons.

[Iamnotminterested]

Gifted at phonics?? Oh, for fucks sake!!! What next, gifted at sitting nicely? Talented at tidying up well?

[noisytoys]

I actually laughed at that post. Then laughed some more. She is on the G+T register for phonics, pointless as that may be I am not disillusioned about her giftedness though she has a very high IQ (highest recorded in the country for her age assessed by an ed psych) and made international news as one of them once in a generation children. I do agree that he labels are often pointless though

[Iamnotminterested]

The thing is, noisy (pulls up a chair and draws on a reefer) so many parents think that there is some kind of national register somewhere, like the roll of company directors or list of practicing dental surgeons. The truth is, as I'm sure you'll know, that NO such 'list' exists, it's particular to each school and that years' cohort, and yes, I suppose if your DD was really quick at picking up phonics then an over-excitable TA might want to 'register' her on a 'register'.

disclaimer here BTW, I do have kids who make the grade but still think that the whole thing is a nonsense.

[webfizzystuff]

There used to be a list Iamnotminterested for secondary age - the top 5% nationally used to be invited to join NAGTY (national association of gifted and talented youth) which used to run summer schools for members and outreach events. The funding stopped though and it was all passed down to the individual schools.

[madwomanintheattic]

That's interesting, noisy. How did you get her iq tested? Dd2's was pretty high, and she was identified in yr r after she was tested for something conpletely unrelated - but that sounds fascinating! How did you know? I know quite a few kids who taught themselves to read early and whatnot, so were ahead of the game well before school, but to speak with such certainty and have professional confirmation at such a young age is amazing!

How on earth did you get them to test so early? Is it just the highest registered at that age because noone else has managed to get their kids tested that early? So she might be more or less average in terms of gifted ness if she had been tested at the same age as everyone else? Or did she really exceed the ceilings on the test, and then go on to do all the additional testing etc? That's truly amazing. I haven't met a pre-schooler who tests close to 160 before! (Mine are bog standard mid 140s)

[madwomanintheattic]

Ah, ok, if dd is Heidi Hankins, then it was through dh's work as he specialises in that area. Please get mnhq to delete if you don't want her name out there - but you might not want to do the brightest pre-schooler line if that's the case! 159 is pretty smart. [Grin] You must be very proud.

Did you guys teach her for the test if dh is an expert? (Genuinely curious - I know lots of kids who test in the 140s without ever having sat an iq test before, so it would stand to reason that if you had been taught what to do with the blocks and done pattern games etc, then you would score higher? It would also make sense that there is a genetic element, of course - having a parent who is presumably interested in gifted kids probably due to his own experiences is much more likely to have gifted kids... Same with the verbal stuff. I think there's a strong genetic element. If she got that score cold then it's fascinating. Did dh have a hard time stopping himself? I know mine would have, every time I went away I came back and dd1 could do something else. It was like a party trick!)

The phonics thing is hilarious though. I'm all for kids getting work differentiated appropriately, but why do school need to break it so far? It's interesting in itself.

Apols for hijack, op! Got distracted!

[noisytoys]

The health visitor referred her for testing age 3 after her 2 and half year check paid for by the NHS. She was closely monitored up to that point because she was speaking at conversational level by 7 months, reading by 18 months etc. She is still very much a small child in terms of her playing, interests and behind with her motor skills but her IQ is in the top 0.1% I doubt many people are tested at her age, and I wouldn't be surprised if she reached her peak and levelled out or was over taken, but I equally wouldn't be surprised if she continues on this steep learning curve

[noisytoys]

No that's not my DD

[3b1g]

DS2 (Y6) is being catered for perfectly well in a mainstream, mixed ability state primary school.
He is currently working about 3-4 years ahead of age expectations in most subjects.
In science he has been doing KS3 work since Y4. He does the same topics as everyone else but in more depth. He has a secondary teacher for an hour a week, either 1-1 or 1-2.
In Maths there are three other children working at the same level (out of 90). They have a secondary maths teacher once a week to do KS3 topics with them and maths workshops about once a term.
His reading and spelling age are several years ahead of chronological age but there are enough other children like this that provision can be made in regular top set English lessons.

[madwomanintheattic]

Ah, ok. So just on 99.9th centile then? Dd2 tested in that bracket, too. She didn't do the additional testing after top-out? (Dd2 was tested on the school age scales, as they knew she would top out the pre-school ones, so didn't bother with them).

How weird that they gave you all guff about brightest in UK, though. They must have been v proud. Good on the HV for bothering though - nursery were desperate to test Ds on his third birthday and the LA turned them down, as they said there was no such thing as gifted before yr r. Fascinating how much it differs from LA to LA. such a postcode lottery!

[noisytoys]

I agree about the postcode lottery. So many have said their LA doesn't recognise G+T as anything special. Here DD has a statement of educational needs. She has a half termly IEP, a 1-1 TA in a state school and the same level of support she would get if she tested at the bottom 0.1%. I guess we are just lucky to live here

[madwomanintheattic]

If it's oxon, I want a refund.

Dd2 had a statement for yr r anyway, as she has cp, so they were already providing 1-1. It was just coincidental that this was in place, though. And of course we didn't know she had taught herself to read so early as she wasn't verbal until three, by which point she reading Virginia Woolf over my shoulder, lol. No idea how she did it, tbh.

They've all had Ieps for gifted in any case, so haven't 'missed out' on any labelling process iykwim, not that they've made a great deal of difference. Was just interested how it happened as I know in our circs the nursery were told to back off. It's the one thing I find v hard to reconcile about UK state ed. it's so much about luck and being in the right place at the right time. So many other equally gifted kids will be milling around in nurseries everywhere, and won't even get tested.

I can't imagine how you managed to hit on exactly the right place. I hope you realise how lucky you are! Do feel free to give others some tips - there are loads of kids in the same situation that would benefit from the attention your dd gets!!

(Not me, btw. We left the UK. And since doing so, have realised how truly appalling the system is for bright kids)

[archilles]

Noisy toys you have previously named your dd.

Her IQ of 140 isn't >99.99 percentile it is 99.6 percentile. Small differences in numbers but huge difference in how a these children would present. A child with IQ of 140 occurs 1/261. So although probably the brightest at an average primary school I can't buy the highest ever tested in that age group. I cannot believe the nhs would pay for a edpsych to test at age three!

Still you are very lucky she gets the support she does.

[madwomanintheattic]

Who said 140? I mentioned it earlier - Apols for any confusion, that was just me saying I know loads in the 140s in yr r, but assumed noisy toys dd was close to 160?

[noisytoys]

The NHS did pay for the assessment and she was referred by her health visitor. I have already said I can't see many people her age being tested. We were told she was the highest her age to be tested. Her report says 99.9 percentile. Apologies if there are discrepancies I haven't looked into it further than reading the report. Even if it is 99.6, 1 in 261 is still well within the top 5-10% that is recognised as G+T. And she does have a statement to help with her extra needs because of her IQ

[madwomanintheattic]

At 140?
(Sorry, just trying to make sense in my head)
What was her FSIQ according to the test? (I assume she did the wenches,er pre-school one? Or did they use the 6+?)

Sorry, bit confused.