mixing formula with breast feeding

[Lucy123]

I have a 7 week old breast fed baby and though I would like to continue breast feeding, I find expressing a complete faff (and can only ever get an ounze or so), but would like the flexibility of getting someone else to feed her every now and again. I'm a very laid back mother generally (gave up dairy, but not milk in tea - mum thinks I'm acting like this is my second child!) and don't see why I shouldn't give her a bottle of formula every now and again. Is this OK??

I mentioned it to the pediatrician, but he told me to give her a particular kind of formula (that no-one round here sells and that I'm reluctant to order in case he was simply visited by a salesman that morning) and to give it to her for the last two feeds of the day. I should have asked why, but he was very impatient. Anyway, I'd want someone else to be able to feed her for other feeds too. What do other people think? (no problems with milk supply so far - don't think that would be an issue).

[Enid]

Why did you have to give up dairy?

[Enid]

sorry, this was all meant to be one post...

I think the problem with substituting formula for a feed is that if you don't then express when a feed is due you may end up with a lower supply? If you are only getting an ounce when you express then your supply may not be very established yet, and giving formula might exacerbate it. Have you tried expressing first thing in the morning? And try different methods, I used the Avent hand pump rather than the battery one I originally bought, it was very successful (except dd wouldnt take a bottle until she was 7 months old, but that's another story).

If you do decide to give formula, aptimil first is supposed to be a good one that even I (in deepest Dorset) had no probs buying. Although a good friend of mine was horrified by it as she said it made her baby's breath smell like cat food!!

[leese]

Lucy 123 - tho' I understand where you're coming from, I think it's still early days in terms of the breastfeeding to be introducing a bottle of formula, if you ultimately want to continue breastfeeding. Please don't feel this is pressuring you - it really isn't - it's up to you and you alone if you breast or bottle feed (and 7 weeks breast milk is no mean feat!), but I can't help feeling that women get on a slippery slope once a bottle of formula is introduced.
The main reason for this is because, as Enid pointed out, your supply will reduce accordingly if you consistently offer a bottle of formula (not sure what you meant by 'every now and again'. This may not be a problem for you initially, but I do think problems arise for example, when the baby has a growth spurt. All that constant sucking on the breast, which seems to go on forever without a break, in order to produce more milk - if you've already been used to giving a formula feed, the temptation would be huge to stop the fractious sucking (which would result in increase in supply), by offering a 'top up' of formula. In this way, the body will never catch up with the baby's demands, just gradually fall further and further behind, until you're bottle feeding.
Like I said, this may be fine by you, and if it is then go for it. However, if your main aim is to continue b/f for awhile, I would hold off on formula. I do appreciate that some will read this and totally disagree, and there are exceptions, but in my experience introducing formula is not necessarily the best idea.
I used to hate expressing too - like you said, a total faff! I tried to do a bit every day, in the morning when I had a better supply, and freeze it little by little - even an ounce a day adds up to a good feed after four or five days. What sort of expressor have you got? Have you considered hiring an electric breast pump from somehwere like the NCT? You can express both breasts at a time - much quicker and easier.
The paediatrician may have suggested substituting two final feeds of the day, but two feeds is a lot of formula, and really will lead to reduced supply.

[Zoe]

Lucy I successfully combined breast feeding with one formula feed each day from three weeks. My son had the middle of the night feed as formula, which had the added bonus of my dh giving it to him and me staying snuggled in bed (I'm not as green as I'm cabbage looking...)

It worked absolutely fine and I used SMA gold at first and then white. The bonus was that when I wanted to wean him from breast to bottle permenantly as return to work loomed, he had no problem taking the bottle

It's not everyone's best method but it worked for me

HTH

[mears]

Lucy123,

Agree with Leese here. You have done a fantastic job breastfeeding up until now - it would be a shame to jeopardise it. If you had a good respose by cutting out dairy you will undo that good work by giving formula - even one bottle. Exclusively breastfed babies until 6 months are much less to develop allergies such as asthma and eczema etc.
A study in Dundee showed that babies who were given formula as well as breast were less likely to develop allergic responses if that was done after 13 weeks, but protection is much better after 6 months.

Although you can sometimes feel tied to your baby, this stage does not last very long in relation to how long your baby only can be fed by you. You are giving such a wealth of benefits by breastfeeding which is also such a lovely experience for your baby.

[aloha]

If you only supplement now and again (eg to go to hairdresser) I'm sure you will be fine supply wise, but two feeds a day is an enormous amount. My ds had to have formula in hospital for various reasons, and so it was pretty much mixed feeding from day 1 and it was useful to collapse into bed every so often and let dh do the night feeds. However, I agree you could end up exclusively bottle-feeding if you make too much of a habit of it. Also, exclusive breast feeding (ie no formula) is very good for reducing the risk of asthma etc. I rather liked going everywhere with ds at that age. He was so portable, loved the car and we even ate out quite often with him snoozing in his car seat as we had a glass of wine and dinner (one big advantage of Gina Ford, IMO!). Plus, of course, I always had food on board when he got hungry - the huge advantage of b/feeding. BTW, Why did you 'give up' dairy? I don't mean to be rude, but it seems really pointless especially as you are drinking milk.

[Lucy123]

thanks everyone - I didn't like what the pediatrician was saying. In answer to the questions - by "every now and again" I mean maybe once or twice a week when I need a break/ have a mission to go on - baby may be portable, but I do not want to take her to a hot and sticky social security office!

I gave up dairy as an experiment to stop her colic (having noticed that it was worse on days when I had cereal for breakfast). I thought I'd try mostly giving up and then I would have given up entirely, only it seems to have worked - dd no longer suffers (phew)! I just mentioned this as an illustration of the fact that I'm not exactly an everything-by-the-book mother (or person, come to that).

Dd is putting on weight well, so I don't think lack of milk is the reason I can't express. I think really it's to do with the cheap pump I bought which never seems to make a proper seal. I just can't bring myself to spend even more money only to potentially have the same problem really. Enid - however do you manage to express in the morning? I guess that would entail waking up before dd, but I like to have as much sleep as I can get!

Oh yes, and I live in Spain so there's nothing like the NCT and you can't buy SMA or aptimil, but I suspect that whatever these milks have that others don't is the same thing that this elusive Spanish stuff has - what is it??

[PamT]

Lucy123, if you do need to buy formula milk you need to be looking for a soya formula (eg Wysoy or Infasoy) or one which is suitable for multiple allergies (Nutramigen). Allergy UK might be able to help you with names and availability or you could try the formula manufacturer's helpline (SMA is 0345 762900), I would imagine that most of them have a website that you could use to contact them. HTH

[mears]

Lucy123,

Have you tried hand expressing - very nifty when you have the knack. No equipment needed other than recepticle

[mears]

For guidance regarding breastfeeding and hand expression, you might find this booklet helpful if you click on
this

[mears]

Hopefully this link will work - I was really excited that I had managed that as well!

this

[mears]

Sorry,
The second link is not actually as good as the first.
Click on the first this that I put in. It will tell you the page is not available but the homepage is there. Click on that and it will open the site. Search for 'hand expressing' and one of the options will be the booklet.

[Lucy123]

thanks mears - finally found the file (and I'll be printing that off for other mothers I know!) By the way - you did the link correctly, it just so happens that pdf files are a complete nightmare to do anything with. Pam - that's a very good point, if this new attempt at expressing doesn't work I'll have to look around. Or I guess that'll be when we find out if she really is lactose intolerant or if, in fact, it's me that can't process it properly (and so my milk is too alkaline or something when I'm eating a lot of it).

[XAusted]

One advantage of giving a bottle feed, maybe onece a day, is that the baby learns to accept a drink from somewhere other than a breast! My dd was breast fed until 13 months which was great except that until the age of 11 months she wouldn't drink from a bottle, cup or anything. So I could never leave her for long as I was needed as soon as she got thirsty! I made sure that ds was used to a bottle for an occasional feed of expressed bm or formula from about 2 weeks and then at 6 months he was able to hold a beaker of juice or whatever in between bf. Very liberating for me!

[tiktok]

Lucy, if your pump isn't working properly then take it back to the shop! It's like any other consumer item - if it doesn't do what it says on the tin, get your money back and choose something else. I am often surprised when people say 'I couldn't get the pump to work' and just accept it.

Your paediatrician is talking bs. Two feeds of formula a day at this age is a pretty sure fire way of reducing your milk supply so you don't have a choice to continue bf.

[mears]

Lucy123,

Glad you got that link to work. Please be reassured your baby is thriving on your milk - there is nothing wrong with it. The baby can extract it fine which is the main thing You just haven't got a technique of expressing yet that suits you.
A pump that definately works well is the Avent Isis ( hand pump). Hand expressing is the cheapest option but not everyone has the patience to master it. Good luck in your endeavours.

[Enid]

lucy123 - do NOT put your baby onto soya milk unless you know for SURE that she is lactose intolerant.

I think leese's point about storing & freezing each ounce is a good one, you will make up a good 8oz feed in no time. I expressed a bit from each breast in the morning cos I seemed to have tons then, (dd found it easier to latch on when my boobs weren't like footballs!) then fed dd. Yes, it does mean getting up to get the pump, but you can do it in bed, its pretty easy. Remember, making up bottles is almost as much of a faff as expressing once you've got the hang of it.

It sounds to me that you don't like expressing and would prefer to give formula, in which case don't do it too often. If you were only occasionally supplementing then I'm sure any reputable, big selling Spanish formula would be fine.

[tiktok]

Soya milk is for babies with diagnosed intolerance to cows milk protein or to lactose - Enid is right. There have been several concerns expressed about its suitability - the sugar level is very high and it hs been associated with severe dental decay. There are also concerns about the high levels of phytoestrogens in it which are types of hormone,

[oxocube]

Lucy123, I know what you mean about disliking/not getting the hang of expressing. With my 2nd, I tried expressing from about 3 months, but could only ever get about 4 oz max, although she put on weight and b/f was no problem (I used an electric pump btw). She was b/f exclusively until about 5 1/2 months. My 3rd baby is now 8 1/2 months and I haven't even bothered trying to express. He is still exclusively b/f and I love it! The only time I express a little (by hand) is if he has eaten lots of solids in the previous meal and doesn't drink as much as normal, then I find my breasts are still quite full & uncomfortable.

I agree with the others that this seems VERY young to drop 2 feeds and your milk is probably not well established enough to cope with this without greatly reducing your supply. Hang in there!! Love oxocube xxx

[tigermoth]

Lucy, with my first son, I made a point of introducing him to the odd bottle when he was about 10 - 12 weeks. I felt the same as you - I needed to know I could have the odd break, mostly for practical reasons. In my case, attending job interviews. I also wanted to get my baby used to accepting a bottle and had been told this was easier to achieve before three months.

To begin with I gave expressed milk - hand expressed with difficulty, but I found I could squeeze enough out for the odd bottle.

Can't remember exactly since it was 7 years ago, but I'm sure I moved on to formula in the bottles by the time my baby was 4 months. I continued to breast feed with no problem until my son was approx 10 months, though from 6 months onwards, I upped the bottles and reduced the breast feeding. Had I wanted to breastfeed exclusively, I might have had problems with supply - I just don't know.

So, if you think you want to introduce mixed feeding later on, I think you could consider theo odd bottle of formula soon - but if I were you, I'd try hand expressing for now. If you want to keep to breastfeeding only, then don't take my advice.

[Lucy123]

thanks again for the reassurance. Mears - those hand-expressing instructions were fab. Can now manage much better (though still only a little at a time - possibly because of dp's helpful cries of "moo!". I'll leave the formula for a few months at least.

[Fionn]

Lucy123 - I'm going to go against the general flow and say give as many formula bottles as you want to. I started off as a committed breastfeeder but ds wasn't putting on weight, I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown and he wanted to feed every 1-2 hours for the first few weeks. I know some people regard this as normal, but it was hell. Even my second, who took to the breast a lot better, still wanted to feed every 2 hours at 3 months old, which was very tiring. After feeling depressed and guilty when I started giving formula to my first, at about 2 weeks old, I decided I wouldn't give myself such a hard time with the second. So I made up the odd bottle when I wanted to go out for a couple of hours, and did mixed feeding for 6 months before dropping the breast feeding.
This is such an emotive topic - I deliberately don't read the Breastfeeding threads because people have as strong views about this as they do on the Bibles thread!- you have to do what suits you, and I think mixed feeding makes a lot of sense and you shouldn't be made to feel that you are somehow depriving your baby of anything if you don't exclusively breastfeed. My 2 children never have colds and are very very rarely ill, unlike the children of my friends in the NCT group who breastfed exclusively for the first few months. I could go on, but just wanted to say do whatever you want to do and particularly don't listen to European doctors who give very different advice from UK ones anyway!

[Demented]

Just to agree with what leese said earlier. I introduced a bottle with DS1 at 5 weeks or so (on HV advice as he was not gaining weight and I wish I had never listened to her re this). The one bottle a day was great (or so I thought at the time) I got a break etc. However 11/12 weeks came (I knew nothing of growth spurts) and DS1 was feeding continually and never seemed satisfied, as the bottles, formula etc were in the house I just went away and made him a bottle, he was instantly satisfied and from then was on two bottles a day as of course my supply was never built up, in the end my breastfeeding days were over by 16 weeks , this was definately not what I had in mind.

[FrancesJ]

Regarding the expressing, I too found it difficult, but, strangely, managed to express milk much, much easier whilst having a bath - strange visual image I know - sitting in bath with breast pump, but it worked for me, anyway. It's maybe worth a try.

[zebra]

LUCY123: There was a lady on one of my email lists who gave "occasional" bottles of formula... and it did work. But occasional meant not more than 2x/week.

Two more anecdotes...one success, one failure.

1. A friend went to combi-feeding when her baby was 6 weeks old. She was working full time and just couldn't pump enough. Kept some breastfeeding going until he was 14 months old. But I think she was very consistent about when he got bottles, and when she fed him herself, and she tried hard to give him the minimum formula he would be satisfied with.
   
   
2. a friend went to combi-feeding when her babe was 4 days old, due to nipple soreness. It seemed to be working really well she fed the baby herself until she felt "empty" which is when the pain kicked in for her. At 1-2 wks old the baby was "90%" breastfed, still.
   
   But the baby has hit a growth spurt and mother is topping off with bottles more and more... and sure enough, the baby is now drifting into full time formula feeding at 7 wks old.