Title says it all really.

Self employed, receipts and invoices in assorted shoe boxes. Waking up in the night sweating about tax/VAT.

I need to get my ship in order so need a simple, fool proof program that will sort me out - would need it t help me with VAT, tax and invoices.

Any recommendations would be much appreciated!

I bought some from ebay, it was about £12 and very good. In the end though it was too complex for my simple needs and I ended up knocking up my own spreadshhet. I'm not VAT registered though, so am fairly straightforward.

Thanks CatMandu - that's the thing isn't it, I don't want anything too complicated cause then using it'll just be another thing that I avoid!

Have a look on ebay and see, it might be fine for your needs I think the seller was called MrSpreadsheet.

I just use Excel.

DP has a very simple business though. He is a driving instructor so only has 1 income, and a few expenditures.

He is not VAT registered.

Thanks - will have another google about. I think I need something that keeps tabs of income over a rolling 12 month period - actually having typed that I realised I don't have the faintest idea what I'm talking about so may not make any sense.

Blarg. I hate money.

I don't think any of the accounting programs on the market make it any easier or less confusing for the self-employed. It is actually very easy, all you need is a couple of lists each month, and add up the totals. But if you don't know what it is you are aiming for it is not easy to get started.

Have you seen the accounting books they do in Smiths/Rymans with pre-printed pages for each month? Try following one of those for a couple of months, then you will have enough idea to set up something that works best for you.

Thanks MrVibrating.That's a good idea.

I think it's the prospect of VAT that's freaking me out. It's an unknown quantity to me - do you know if the pre-printed pages would help with that kind of thing?

I have used SAGE and Quick Books which are both ok - but to be honest I would use Excel as its simpler and unless you are ok with the accounting terms it can be even more confusing.

Thanks Jazzicatz - I think it's safe to say that I am NOT ok with accounting terms...

I think Sage is very straightforward - but then I'm an accountant! Sage Instant Accounts is £115+VAT on the Sage website. Sometimes you can get slightly better deals if you buy from elsewhere.

First things first - are you actually VAT registered? Who has done your book-keeping up to now, if anyone?

Obviously I don't know the in and outs of your business, but I think that VAT only becomes important once your turnover reaches £67K pa

Using Excel might seem less hassle, but once you've actually got your head round an accounting program, it is really much easier imo. Have you got anyone who could give you a run-through? Alternatively you could outsource the whole thing - there are people out there who will deal with everything tax/VAT/accounting related for you but obviously this is going to be more costly - depending on skill/qualifications of person, from £80 or so upwards per month.

have a look at this.

Why don't you look into getting a bookkeeper. May end up savings you hours of time and you don't need to get the software then.
Most of the SE guys I bookkeep for drop off their invoices and receipts and I process the VAT for them. I only takes me around 5 hours a month. You might end up sleeping better this way too

i agree with cktwo, but then I am a bookkeeper too I'd try and find someone(not an accountancy firm, as they're too expensive, I know I also work in on) I have just started out doing bookkeeping work from home and charge £15 per hour so if your work only takes say 5 hours every quarter then it's only £75 every 3 months so may well be worth saving your headaches!

But, if you are set on doing it yourself, and there's no reason not too, then excel is the way to go.

sage, or excel.

I've used both when book keeping and doing bank recs as well.

Sage looks nicer to a degree but if all you want is a bog standard this is what I have in this is what I have out do excel spread sheets. I possibly still have an old one on this laptop.

failing that TAS books is like a simpler sage and about half the cost, that's simple enough to use. If you do your invoices each day/week should only be an hour or so as week.

oh and re the VAT thing - ask in your local HMCE they used to (not sure if they still do as was many moons ago I went on them) but they used to do morning courses on how to work out VAT etc, they're free - and you get tea/coffee.

(if you don't want to go down the book keeper route I mean)

No advice I'm afraid but I'm glad you started this thread. I'm thinking of starting to buy and sell craft goods (card making etc) and the accounting side is the only thing putting me off, so will watch with interest. I'm going to buy from a wholesale contact and sell on eBay initially and maybe setup my own website.

Yes, they do different pre-printed pages for VAT registered and non-VAT registered businesses, you just transfer the totals into the indicated boxes on your VAT return.

Don't ignore the possibility of a bookkeeper, they can save you money by making sure you claim the 'hidden' VAT on things like parking (this is a really tricky area because sometimes there is VAT on parking, sometimes there isn't. Working out the difference is probably not what you want to spend your time doing). The difficulty is finding a good one, and I can't help you there.

For both LilRedWG and the OP, Business Link will help you find out all you need to know.

sorry to crash thread.
Eddas - you said you have just started out - how is it going? Are you getting enough work, where are you finding it, is £15 an hour enough, are you working at home or at the clients?

CS, I work from home, thought i'd start at a lowish rate to drum up business, i'm hoping to get work through recommendation in the future. I don't have many clients atm, but that's because I have a job too and at the moment work from home with that so don't have very much free time. In Jan I will be working all my employed hours in the office so evenings/weekends will be free so i'll try to get more clients. All i've done so far advertising wise is Gumtree, I had a fair few enquiries but because I want to do it from home a lot weren't viable. As of Jan(dd starts school) I maybe able to be more flexible. I'm just sort of testing the waters atm.

Are you thinking of doing it, or do you already?

umm, have been thinking of it for a while, was going to do it in Mar this year - was going to talk to my H one evening about handing in my notice and before I could do so he announced he was leaving, which made the security of my job ALOT more appealing!Work is actually alot better, and has potential at the moment, but going self employed still has alot of appeal, but then there are the downsides. Just interested to hear how others are doing. Where are you? I am in Cambs.

i'm not brave enough to give up my job and do it fulltime I need the security of money every month, but like the idea of earning some extra money. If it does take off and I can do it fulltime then that'd be great, but I kinda like my job. I only work parttime. Would you be able to go parttime? I'm in Kent

I already am part-time (do 20 hours), I am happy with that and while the boys are still small (6 and 2.9) I don't want more time away from them, so while building it up while working is sensible, I don't want that at the moment.
Having looked at my contract I am pretty sure that doing it while working would be in breach of it anyway.
As I said, just interested in how others are going - its a big leap, even while keeping your job - so well done for taking it. I am sure that you will find there is more than enough work out there to keep you busy once word gets out.

i've been thinking about it since having dd(she's 4) but never did it, then I had ds(he's now 18mths) and thought about doing it instead of working, but we need the guaranteed income, so whilst he was very little I decided not to.I'm sort of hoping it'll build up gradually and once ds starts school(3 years!) I can work 3 days a week at my job and self-employed the other 2.

I'd get a bookeeper! I have a great one (only £12 per hour, near heathrow if you are interested)

I tried doing it myself on Sage (which is ok with the help of sage for dummies!) and it is just too much complexity - especially as the business started growing!!

Wow - thanks for all the responses - I really appreciate it.

At the minute I have an accountant who does my annual accounts but she's for ever sucking on her gums and telling me I'm very close to the VAT threshold and should be keeping tabs on everything to make sure I don't go over.

Unfortunately, keeping tabs isn't really in my nature - (more a fingers in ears, head in the sand type...) so my terror is that I will inadvertantly breech the threshold and end up owing VAT left right and centre. Of course in the time I have spent worrying about this possibility I could easily have sorted my books out. The problem is that when I first started out I was working really part-time and for several years didn't make enough to pay tax never mind flaming VAT. So I never got into the habit of keeping meticulous books - plus it's a skills based business as opposed to one where I'm buying stock in etc. (running out of excuses for v v poor business management here...).

Anyway -thanks so much to everyone who has responded. The VAT course sounds like a good idea (or at least the biscuits do) - and I will investigate all the other options which have been suggested. Have a feeling though that a book keeper might be the best idea...

Where are you based LuLu?

I'm in the frozen north Tracy. Edinburgh.

I'm in Helensburgh - would be pleased to help you if you want - meet half way somewhere?

Hope you're having nicer weather today than us- it's blustery and lashing with rain. Am about to brave the shops for some lunch - yuk!

If it is skill based then do you have that many invoices a year?
I would set up a basic spreadsheet recording income, and use that to keep an eye on the VAT.
TBH though, your annual accounts should cost significantly less if you have decent records through the year so it is worth looking at the options.

Ah, I understand the rolling 12 month thing now, you want to know if you are over the VAT threshold. It will only take 2 minutes to set up a spreadsheet to do that, so I'll do it for you - buy me a pint next time I am in Edinburgh .

Blimey MrVibrating - would you really do one for me??!! I'd be forever in your debt.

Squirrels - I don't have a huge amount of invoices - I usually sign a contract then payments are triggered automatically at various stages of the job (work in media so 'employed' by companies like BBC on freelance basis).

Thanks for the offer Tracy - are you a book-keeper? We have horrible weather here too - blowing a gale and raining. Have just cracked and put on the central heating!

Good tips on here - thanks guys and sorry for crashing Lulumacgloo.

yes LuLu - I'm a book keeper. Remember - it's not just a 12 month rolling - but a quarterly rolling. But then if the following qtr fell below - it might be as well using the annual rolling.

Do you have a business only bank account? If so then just add up all the income side - ignoring any capital deposits from you etc.

I've used Dosh cashbook (came free with my lloyds business account) for the last 5 years. It is sooooo simple! We tried Sage and found it too complex for our simple needs

I agree about Sage, if your needs are simple it isn't good. Fab for more complex businesses though. The partners at work try and get people using Sage when they really only need a good spreadsheet. I think that's mainly due to the fact that's it's been so long since they did any bookkeeping type work blees em

Just got back to the computer. You will find the Sales Invoice spreadsheet here -enjoy!

TracyK you are wrong, the turnover test is not applied quarterly. Here are the exact words from the HMRC web site (my emphaisis):

When you must register for VAT

If you are in business, you must register for VAT if your turnover for the previous 12 months is above £67,000. This is known as the VAT registration threshold. It changes regularly, so you should regularly check your turnover against the current threshold.

You must also register for VAT if:

- you think your turnover may go over the threshold in the next 30 days
- [... some other conditions that are not relevent here]

I just like the little piggy banks in Dosh - simple things..

MrVibrating - you are a star. I'm away from my pc at the moment and just checking in but when I get home I'll download the spreadsheet and set about getting my house in order!

I really, really appreciate it - thanks again.

You could also look at the flat rate scheme for VAT as it is much more simple. HMRC has a set % that you pay dependant o your line of work (12.5% for my DH), you then just pay this % of your total sales as a fee each quarter.

Your accountant should at least advise you about this. You also get a further 1% discount in the firat year.

link

It depends on your line of busimness but for my DH he charges out the VAT at 17.5% then just pays the 11% so we actually make some money on this. He is just under the VAT threshold but it is worth registering for this reason. His business doesnt really involve buying any goods, just charging out his hours, hence we make money.

I have also requested paper returns as then you get something physical through the post to remind you.

You could also look at the flat rate scheme for VAT as it is much more simple. HMRC has a set % that you pay dependant o your line of work (12.5% for my DH), you then just pay this % of your total sales as a fee each quarter.

Your accountant should at least advise you about this. You also get a further 1% discount in the firat year.

link

It depends on your line of busimness but for my DH he charges out the VAT at 17.5% then just pays the 11% so we actually make some money on this. He is just under the VAT threshold but it is worth registering for this reason. His business doesnt really involve buying any goods, just charging out his hours, hence we make money.

I have also requested paper returns as then you get something physical through the post to remind you.

sorry for dbl post.

As thehairybabysmum says, if you are selling your time to businesses (as opposed to selling goods, or selling to individuals), you should look at the flat rate scheme even if you are below the threshold. For instance if you charge £20,000 in a year it could be worth £1,300 to you.